Chinese Blade Culture

[Schermitore]

This is a question regarding Chinese edged weapons, and their use in the civilian/peacetime context.

Many nations have had what can best be described as a "blade culture"--ie., a whole way of life (along with corresponding modes of behavior, etc.) revolving around the use of edged weapons. Certain peoples have been famous (or infamous) for their prediliction for the use of edged weapons to settle disputes, protect the family (both physically and honor-wise), and so on. Obvious examples would be the various Filipino cultural groups, as well as the Renaissance-era Italians (both in the North, with people like the Bolognese and Friuliani, and in the South, with the Neapolitans and Sicilians).

Did the Chinese have a blade culture? I realize that the dao in its various incarnations was a popular battlefield weapon, whereas the jian was associated with the upper classes, but what I am trying to find out is whether or not the Chinese had a distinct culture concerning the use of edged weapons in a civilian/peacetime setting. Of course, it is often remarked how kung-fu is a civilian art, and, considering the impressive array of hand and projectile weapons that figure into the numerous styles, one would think that their must have been some sort of culture (involving those modes of behavior, codes of honor, etc.) to go along with them. Was this the case, and, if so, what do we know about Chinese blade culture?

Much Obliged,

David Black Mastro

[Darryl]

Cultural Prespective

Good question. Personally, I dont know so will be following this thread with interest in case anyone does.

along with corresponding modes of behavior, etc

For a slight aside, I have heard that the reason for driving on the left in certain countries was directly related to this. When travelling a trail/path, you would travel on the left to give you the chance to draw your weapon with your right arm if you were ambushed (more response time from the right, chance to draw a shorter weapon if from the left). As to the historical accuracy of such a theory, I do not know. Same with the handshake, or the use of metal cutlery.

[cnholmes]

I don't know much on this either, but its an excellent question.

For my tuppen'orth, I would have thought that this would have come out in their writing. That is, in the Traditional Chinese script. Is there a radical for sword?

Many Regards,
Chris.

[Chiahua]

kung

I wish I had some degree of scholarship to back up my thoughts on this issue...
I think that the discipline and culture surrounding the blade in peacetime becomes "transferred" to other pursuits. That is to say, the discipline and skill ("kung" in chinese) becomes applied to other more peaceful arts when not whoopin ass. Hence, it's common to see people draw the connection between swordsmanship and chinese calligraphy-- the most famous reference to this was seen in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", but I've read interviews with Chen Xiaowang (one of the standardbearers of Chen family Taijiquan) where he states the same thing. This can actually be traced back to the Analects of Confucius (I don't have a copy in front of me, sorry) where he lists a number of activities suitable for the scholar; swordsmanship is among them I'm pretty sure. How seriously the scholars of the court pursued the martial arts is anyones guess...
Another example of "transferral" in another culture is the link between Japanese cuisine and samurai ethics. Some of the more serious sushi chefs draw parallels between their craft and that of the martial arts. This is evidenced in the extremely high quality of their cutlery, and skill in wielding such cutlery. Okay, so I read that off the web, and given the popularity of sushi said chefs are definitely not in the majority (like "Disco Sushi" in LA...) but that's not to say such folks don't exist.

[Schermitore]

Geographical Considerations

Part of the problem with my question is that it is rather broad in scope, considering that China is such a large country.

In other words, a certain "blade culture" may have existed in one area, while other territories may have been different. Considering that one sees a variety of manifestations of such a culture in countries far smaller than China, this would hardly be surprising.

For example, 16th century Italy was little more than a patchwork of independent and semi-independent city-states. Although contemporary writers sometimes spoke collectively of "Italians", the people of Italy had no sense of national identity at that time; people from Venice were Venetians, people from Milan were Milanese, and so on. Social conditions could vary considerably, and yet there were similarities too. At this time, Naples and Sicily were under Spanish rule, and were known as "The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies". Spanish troops were garrisoned in these areas for a long time, and there was an interchange of ideas between the Spaniards and the local spadaccini (swordsmen). The Sicilians, in particular, were noted to be quick to draw their blades over points of honor. In the North, things weren't all that different. Venice was one of the more powerful states (due to her being a mercantile/maritime empire), and her influence was considerable. The border territory of Friuli was usually under Venetian control, and the Friuliani provided militia troops for the Venetians. The Friuliani had a reputation as swordsmen, and they made excellent guerrilla fighters, which proved useful when dealing with the Muslim Turks. Friuli was also considered "backward" even in the 16th century; a sort of Italian "Wild West", if you will. The Friuliani were very touchy about matters of honor, and duels were common. The concept of the vendetta was also strong there, and it was actually an early 16th century incident in Friuli (a massacre at a carnival) which inspired Shakespeare to write Romeo and Juliet.

Now, considering how much larger China is (compared to Italy), one has to wonder as to the variety of "blade cultures" that may have existed. Modern CMA practitioners usually speak of Northern and Southern styles of kung-fu, which is a useful categorization--but how much more complicated is it? Surely, it wasn't (and isn't) so simple as "North" and "South", and this is why I made this post, since I am, unfortunately, largely ignorant about the particulars of Chinese geography and culture. For example, did Northern Chinese favor daos (owing perhaps to a Mongolian influence)? What about in the South? Also, what were the rules regarding the possession of weapons under the various dynasties? Did these change drastically, or remain essentially the same? We know that CMA exponents in more recent times fought unarmed challenge matches, but what about swordfights--was this common in China?

I apologize if my query is a bit complicated (I just realized it myself)...

Thanks,

David Black Mastro

[cnholmes]

Not much time to post - argh!

When I mentioned blades and writing, I meant that there would be references to blades in the writing (e.g. a radical for 'blade'), rather than similar skills used in writing and swordsmanship.

I'm not arguing against sunyatas point concerning transferral; I think it puts an interesting angle on it - different to mine.

More later when I've got time.

Chris.

[Daniel Jimenez]

Confucius

Hello everyone!
i am now on a very important quest!
I am trying to answer this question:
How can the moral attribute honesty be the central strategy of a consulting company?
I am very interested in using Confucius idea of Honesty, but do not know what book of this great person to search?
i have found out in "wikipedia" some answers such as the concepts of Li, Yi and Ren as the three levels of deepness of honesty.
Any ideas? thoughts? or even some possible ideas to input in my essay would be great!
Regards
DAN
smiling form the Heart!

[MaxP]

Hello Brother,

I found this just now. I haven't read it, but it looks relevant.

Maybe you could try finding the 'Four Books' of Confucianism: The Great Learning, Doctrine of the Mean, The Analects, and Mencius.

Good luck!

Max,

Namo Vajrasattva Bodhisattva

[Daniel Jimenez]

Thank you very much!
I am openening the page right now and going to the library later on
Regards
DAN

[parrapiti]

Dear Daniel!

Maybe, just maybe, you are searching too far...

Have you checked the concept of "honesty" in the Traditional Native American cultures, the local Venezuelan and Colombian cultures, the local Chibcha culture were you now live?

Local "vibration" is always a good ingredient for any strategy...

Best regards,

Piti

[Daniel Jimenez]

Dear Sifu,
Thanks for the advice!

Best wishes
DAN

[shao]

the movie legendary weapons of china might have some information on this topic.

[Ronny]

In China, like in most other cultures, the sword was an elite weapon. Not only was it not affordable for the commoner because it was too expensive, it was also not possible to manufacture it for the commoner because the necessary material was not so easy to find and the knowledge to make a good sword was also missing. Also, to use the filigree Chinese sword, needs much skills, more than for other weapons. And usually the common soldier used a (long) spear, and mastered only a very few techniques with it. It was much more effective to teach common soldiers a few effective spear techniques (and formations) than to teach them the use of the sword. It has also a economical reason - it would cost too much to make swords for every soldier.

As it was only an elite weapon, therefore most of it's practitioners where scholars and belonged to the upper literate class. Therefore, it is only natural that usually Chinese Swordsmen where also knowledgeable in other arts like literature, calligraphy, painting, music, poetry, etc. because the belonged to their elite education. There's a Chinese saying which resembled the ideal of a Wuxia (Scholar-Warrior): "Be equally good with the sword and pen!"