"All-sided support"

[Chiahua]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J85ARLul9h8

I declined to post this video in the "Best of Youtube" section since Grandmaster Chen Xiaowang mentions a principle that is fundamental to my school's interpretation of taijiquan, and I think of most other orthodox schools of taijiquan: All sided support. In my school, admittedly a pretty "external" oriented school (we pay more attention to alignment rather than structure), we interpret this concept of "all sided support" to be peng energy expressed at all times in the form, everywhere in the body. We test for this by making sure we can provide adequate resistance when gently pressed, whether in the Peng posture or in other postures.
I wonder if someone more experienced and with better knowledge of mandarin can clarify the principle that Grandmaster Chen is discussing? I remember reading in the classics that the "qi must be taut like a drum, all over the body". Is this so in Wahnam Taijiquan too? I'm reminded of the video of "Dragon Manifests Marvelous Power".

[Baguamonk1]

That is very interesting video.

That feeling of "all sided-support" is a very good feeling. It allows you to move, react, and even attack from a very balanced position. Peng is a very big deal in this case, but you can also move to displace/redirect the opponents force and still maintain all-sided support. When you are pushed in the chest, and your back bends backwards in an attempt to "yield" then he has already defeated you. Even when you are yielding, full peng (or all sided support), must be maintained. But peng in itself is not enough to deter all pushes/movements coming into your sphere, especially depending on the angle. Usually what happens when I correctly react to a push in the chest, is a sinking and twisting/turning motion, while still maintaining all-sided support. Obviously if you are moving/redirecting force, your structure/alignment must be correct, or peng (all sided support) cannot function.

When I used to push on my teacher, it was like trying to push water, that was not only loose, but also very resistant. He could practically put my wrist in a chin-na uncomfortable position (the way the wrist twists) when I was pushing on his chest, without the use of his hands. The more I pushed, the more uncomfortable the feeling became. If I tried to change directions of the push, his body would automatically adjust, never loosing position, or peng. (but there IS movement). It felt like my wrist was going to break. And the more I changed directions of the push, the farther my hand "sunk" into a painful position.
Once you loose that equillibrium, it is very easy to be toppled/caputured/hit.

There was another time when I got a similar (but different feeling), in which my body was able to adapt, move, and rotate while maintaining all sided support. All this while standing still, he would move around me (even behind me) and push at me from all angles, starting with one hand, and eventually with two. What eventually happened, is I began to feel light (my body), and incredibly loose. Instead of feeling like I was bouncing him off of me (like peng does), I felt like no matter which way he pushed/changed direction, he glanced off of me. My body naturally adjustedposition to do so, without thinking, just feeling. And yet never putting my body in a position in which all-side support, or alignment/structure could be exploited. Although they both get the job done, the feeling I just described was more yin than the feeling I described in the previous paragraph (which was more yang),

Some experts are "softer" than others while others are a bit more "springy" and harder (tout drum), similar to bagua practicioners. But I think the real mastery, comes in the ability to freely transform and interchange the two, perfectly, in the perfect situations.

[Chiahua]

So do you think "all sided support" was a poor translation of "peng"? In this case I mean energy and not the posture.

[Baguamonk1]

No read again. But they are very closely related.

But the video itself seems pretty poorly trasnlated. I have not heard the term "all-sided support" that often. I'm guessing it sounds better and perhaps more definable in chinese. All sided support sounds like a litteral translation.

[Chiahua]

Okay....

Peng is a very big deal in this case, but you can also move to displace/redirect the opponents force and still maintain all-sided support.

Even when you are yielding, full peng (or all sided support), must be maintained. But peng in itself is not enough to deter all pushes/movements coming into your sphere, especially depending on the angle.

Instead of feeling like I was bouncing him off of me (like peng does), I felt like no matter which way he pushed/changed direction, he glanced off of me.

Obviously if you are moving/redirecting force, your structure/alignment must be correct, or peng (all sided support) cannot function

i'm missing something here. Yes, they are closely related, and you are using the terms near interchangeably. What is the difference then? I really just need to take some more mandarin so I know what Grandmaster Chen is saying...

[Baguamonk1]

Well I think all-sided support is a more specific way of explaining peng (the energy, not the posture) perhaps. But it is a bit different. It seems like he is talking about a physical position (or pattern) sometimes, while others it seems like he is talking about a type of energy (like peng). I have heard the term used before, and it pretty meach seems to mean, that you are in a position (with good posture), where there is no glaring weaknesses or angles in which you can easily be uprooted. Similar to "peng" in the sense that it is kind of a defensive energy, if you have incredible peng, then you should also have great all-sided support. Not sure if they are interchangable, but one is surely a sign of the other (or perhaps a lack of it). Peng cannot work without correct alignment/posture (for example, the back bent backwards too far), thus you don't have all sided support.

Strange term, you can get what he means by watching the video. But wether it is a poorly translated interpretation of peng, I would not know. Would he just not say "ward off?" I think I know what you asked earlier, that maybe he is not talking about the ward off posture, but the energy (which in mandarin MIGHT be all-sided support). I just tried to offer a couple experiences in what I believe to be all-sided support. It seems more specific than peng in some cases, but sometimes more general.