Sad State of Chinese Medicine in China

[Ray]

Hi everyone,
I recently read a newspaper article that my parents wanted to show me regarding some interesting happenings going on in China. It seems that a 30 yr practitioner of Chinese medicine has not only given up on his practice but has written several articles about how ineffective it is and his website has racked over 10,000 hits (don't know what it is, or his name sorry). He explained how Chinese medicine had no proven medical value whatsoever, can be dangerous to one's health, and functioned entirely on a placebo effect. Even worse he is pushing for the government to completely give up on Chinese medicine and focus on western medicine (Mao tried the same thing, I think).
Several professors at various Chinese medical universities including the one in Nanjing were quite appalled by this and explained how Chinese medicine must be reworked instead of dropped completely.
The newspaper also analyzed various five year Chinese medicine programs in china only to realize that many devoted four years to things other than Chinese medicine and only one year to what was considered Chinese medicine. Many older practitioners in there 50s and above are lamenting the fact that many of these schools focus more on western medicine than Chinese and those teaching Chinese medicine have more of a western medicine background than anything else.
The newspaper concluded that since Chinese and Western medicine utilized such different paradigms both could not co-exist together harmoniously and either one or the other must be abolished in the future.

This is like a nightmare to me.

[Chi Addict]

Hi divineshadow,

Do you know of any links to this article?

I'm curious as to how this practitioner arrived at such conclusions.

[Ray]

Hi Chi,

I actually read the article on the China World Daily newspaper while in the middle of an argument. Let me reread it again since I am a bit less distracted now and I'll get back to you. I'm pretty sure though that gist of what I read was correct.

Sincerely,

Ray

[Ray]

Hi everyone,
Article
The article is rather long so I'll break it down into small parts. Firstly, the article explains that recently two things happened that shook up the Chinese medical world in China. First is the sudden movement by Chinese professor Zhang Gong Yao of Zhongnan University's Science and Sociology department to abolish Chinese medicine from China in five years. The second is Korea naming Chinese medicine in Korea to Korean medicine.
My Views
I'm a bit upset about this so I am having trouble reading this without getting angry. Maybe I'm a bit too emotional right now since I am still pretty sick. The professor has taught Chinese medicine for thirty years and is now using the internet to publish papers and articles that explain why Chinese medicine lacks any real scientific basis and how it should be abolished in favor of western medicine.
The second regarding Korean medicine is an interesting event that I heard of recently. The Koreans have recently begun to claim that they invented acupuncture (I am pretty sure they did not) after changing Chinese medicine to Korean medicine. However, based off my own experiences Korean medicine, I feel has unique characteristics of its own and is not just Chinese medicine. Unfortunately, when I discuss this with other Chinese they are all of the assumption that the Koreans are just ripping off from the Chinese. Korea's renaming Chinese for Korean medicine in my eyes is a good thing, because I feel that Korean medicine is actually a blend of Chinese and Korean ancient medical knowledge. Furthermore the government seems to be (my memory is a little foggy right now) promoting Korean medicine as a cultural treasure of sorts. The fact that Korea may be promoting Korean medicine while some people in China are trying to abolish it strikes me as sad and ridiculous

[Chi Addict]

First is the sudden movement by Chinese professor Zhang Gong Yao of Zhongnan University's Science and Sociology department to abolish Chinese medicine from China in five years

I seriously hope that doesn't happen. I have to really wonder what is his agenda. Being disgruntled might be fine, but to totally abolish chinese medicine in China??

THere seems to be a trend of hybrid western/eastern medical clincs popping up in my area here. It is interesting. Haven't seen a doctor in years, but from what i recalled(think was my parents who first said it), arn't one not suppose to consume these 2 types of medicines together? Hmmm...

[Ray]

Dear Chi addict,
As far as I know, taking both different medicines together may or may not be necessary depending upon the situation. Chinese medicine as far as I know is a complete medical system, while Western medicine, in my own opinion, is not as complete. This is not to say that the two systems cannot work together. Indeed, maybe in the case of some sort of emergency western medicine would be better than Chinese medicine to deal with the immediate dangers, then Chinese medicine can repair the root causes that western medicine fail to deal with.
Based on my own experience I have found most hybrid Eastern/Western medicine aka TCM to be totally ineffective. I think the reason for this is that they adopt a western medical paradigm and then use a watered down Eastern system.

Yours truly,

Ray

[Chi Addict]

I see....thanks for the info Ray.

I'm pretty much against using western medical drugs & methods unless absolutely nesscary. But I can see the rationale for using it during emergencies.

Hmmm....i thought TCM is wholly Chinese Medicine? I'm not aware of the exact labels.....but i assume those traditional senseis i visit are TCM practioners. Tui-na,accupuncture,taking pulse,medical herbs,etc.

Then again, i guess it really depends on the skill level of the practioner if treatments are to be effective.

[precious_Duck]

Well the way I see it, there are some confusions going on in the world about what TCM actually stands for. I once read about TCM being a watered down system of OCM (Original Chinese Medicin) due to some political mishap.
Anyway, I believe that TCM today is mostly just a common phrase for what we all know as eastern medicin. That means that there can still be doctors or clinics which are named TCM but use the whole and original system.


I believe that western and eastern medicin must be held apart and kept as seperate pieces of a puzzle. But if you were to use both and set them together so that they fit, you have a relatively perfect medical system.
For example, if you have a cold and you are in pain, you might want to get pills from a western doctor against the symptoms and pain, but also visit a eastern doctor to eliminate the root of the problem (as someone else has already noted here).

pD

[Ray]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your posts. As far as I understand it TCM is just a term that can be used to describe watered down Chinese medicine. Generally speaking people who study watered down Chinese medicine usually engage things from a mostly western medical paradigm and hand out herbal remedies on a symptom based prescription. A good example of this would be a doctor who checks your pulse and then checks your blood pressure with a blood pressure device. The way I understand it, a doctor who has studied the non-watered down version wouldn't need to take your blood pressure or give you you herbal remedies for that.

Merry Christmas,

^^b

[Zenon]

I think the reason behind this is that due to the nature of Chinese medicine, many improffesional schools opened and many charlatans or not very knowledgable practitioners appeared who as a very unfortunate result shadowed the effective and proffesionals of the medicine.

[Ray]

Dear Zenon,
Sorry I haven't had time to translate the rest of the article but I don't think the problem is with the nature of Chinese medicine. There are a lot of charlatans and ineffective practitioners, but I think mainstream acceptance of these arts is a big factor. Although the number of acupuncture schools are growing I know that many health insurance companies don't provide insurance for Chinese herbal remedies and where I am I get the impression it just isn't a respected field at all whether it be from asians or non-asians.

[Antonius]

Ray, keep the faith. It must be difficult because of the influence of your parents, but try not to get dismayed. Chinese medicine is well respected by many people, but most of all by satisfied patients. From the outside looking in, it's easy to say negative things about Chinese medicine, but once you see what happens on a daily basis in a successful clinic, there is nothing anyone can say to make you doubt.

In short, anyone who says that Chinese medicine doesn't work has never seen or used real Chinese medicine. I don't care if that person has 30 years experience from a famous hospital in China -- if he's not seeing tremendous success in his clinic, then it's because he's doing something wrong.

Compare the situation to Kung Fu. There are many "authorities" on Kung Fu from China claiming that qi is not real. It doesn't matter how many years of experience someone has, or where they come from. If they practice flowery fists for 50 years, they'll never be any closer to experiencing qi.

The same applies to Chinese medicine. The fact is that there are many, many successful Chinese doctors in our country. They run successful clinics where, every day, patients find relief that Western medicine could not provide. Every day, Chinese medicine is changing people's lives for the better. The medicine works if you use it correctly. It works wonders.

Your parents may not understand this for a while, but heck, what parents understand their 22-year-old son?

[Zenon]

Dear Zenon,
Sorry I haven't had time to translate the rest of the article but I don't think the problem is with the nature of Chinese medicine. There are a lot of charlatans and ineffective practitioners, but I think mainstream acceptance of these arts is a big factor. Although the number of acupuncture schools are growing I know that many health insurance companies don't provide insurance for Chinese herbal remedies and where I am I get the impression it just isn't a respected field at all whether it be from asians or non-asians.

Yeah its true that contributed as well. But this became worse with charlatans and imporffesionals.

Its not like western medicine where some people can practice it and see immediate and clear results. Also the medical industry comes in, which makes things even more tangible. You are sick, you ll go to a doctor, examine you tell you whats wrong with you and make you a prescription of a medicine.

You broke a leg you get an opperation and a plaster.

You have a heart problem, you have heart surgery.

And in order for western medicine to be practiced, all doctors have a certification as proof their practices were tested and effective. If they dont seem effective they dont get a certification.

But since chinese medicine sounds more vague, doesnt have a visible, direct or tangible effect, I think many tought the chinese medicine to many people, without actually checking the real and appropriate effectiveness of chinese medicine practiced by them since IMO its harder and deeper to understand than western medicine, in an effort to spread it more.

At the end since so many may have knowledge only of the surface of chinese medicine, and since the nature of it is such, many appear that dont practice it well, or dont have the appropriate knowledge. At the end they spread with them their ineffectiveness, creating a bad and quastionable impression of it on top of the "strange" nature and already unfair questionable impression of chinese medicine, which I am sure its 100% effective because from what I ve read so far it gets directly to the real root of a problem.

Mainstream acceptance of the chinese medicine is a problem due to its nature. I can picture now people reading Sifu Wong's book. Although they are facts experienced by Sifu himself, how many are willing to accept it? I ve opened such disgussions with many people but I got the immediate "BULLSHIT" reply which makes me angry.

Even more chinese medicine is becoming more like a fashion. And I mean it in a bad way. They are becoming something like a pop culture by many. Its being transformed from something deep and complex into something shallow just like they have done to Tai Chi and Yoga.

I am amazed by the fact that there are people who practice Tai Chi and dont actually believe in Chi. They see it as a mere excercise.

And because of this people arent taking it seriously. As a result, it offers the chance to improffesionals and charlatans to practice it without having anyone bothering in checking their abilities and certifications.

[Ray]

Well Zenon,
I don't really know what to do about this problem either. I can only hope that one day some real genuine experts can set up some sort of system of accreditation that is more in depth and accurate than what we have now. I know practicing acupuncture requires a license but I am personally skeptical on how well the tests gauge a person's genuine skill. Chinese medicine is incredibly broad, the herbology, tui na, traumatology, and what not would ideally be included and taught and tested correctly as well.
To be honest I don't think its likely though and I don't think much can be done about the fakes but I plan on being the real thing and that's enough for me right now.

Yours truly,

Ray

[Ray]

Dear Sifu Anthony,
Thanks for your post it really was uplifting. ^_^ Although my parents believe in Chinese medicine, they along with other people keep telling me that I'll never make enough money to live wholesomely if I pursue it. The best Chinese doctor I have met so far (who has been kind enough to teach me some principles) runs a very meager clinic in a very deserted plaza. My dad took a look at his place and said, "See?".
You were kind enough to explain to me that people can live well off of a career in Chinese medicine. Personally, I'll continue to pursue my dreams, do my best, and trust God.

^_^

Love and respect,

Ray