Sparring

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

I’m currently at a stage where I’m having a look at Shaolin Wahnam and I had a quick question about sparring. Students have written to Sifu Wong to say how they have been able to apply the correct kung fu patterns spontaneously in sparring, but I couldn’t help but notice two things in sparring videos.

Firstly, attacks were often left out while the defender responded and counter-attacked. Although I haven’t been in a proper fight, many videos on the internet show that, in a real confrontation, punches are pulled back.

Secondly, I have noticed that sometimes attacks are finished (for example, a punch is fully stretched out) before the receiving motion is made. This would allow the punch to connect in real life. However, I’d appreciate your thoughts on these two points. Do you have any comments or thoughts?

Thanks in advance

James

[grammatoncleric]

Hi there James,

best thing would be to learn from a Wahnam Kung Fu teacher. Words never satisfy the soul .

Also you wrote;

'Firstly, attacks were often left out while the defender responded and counter-attacked. Although I haven’t been in a proper fight, many videos on the internet show that, in a real confrontation, punches are pulled back.'

Sounds like your confusing sparring for Self Defence training, in my view they are 2 different things. You rarely see in a street confrontation - aside from a pre-planned match fight- two people squaring off and trading blows. Usually the fights are one sided, an assault type situation, or if they do go into a match fight, people don't wait turns to take and recieve blows.

I only wrote that because, what you wrote you seemed concerned about it's similarity to real confrontations, take it for what it is... sparring.

Like Sifu said, if you are looking to use Shaolin Kung fu for self defence you aren't using you time wisely, there are martial arts out there that will teach you to fight quicker and effectively. Or something like that.

If you concerned with learning for self defence I can put you onto some teachers and systems PM me.

[Andrew]

Like Sifu said, if you are looking to use Shaolin Kung fu for self defence you aren't using you time wisely, there are martial arts out there that will teach you to fight quicker and effectively. Or something like that.

Close, but not quite right. Sifu says learning and practicing Shaolin Kung Fu for self defence ALONE is not a wise use of your time. However, Shaolin Kung Fu (as Wahnam Taijiquan) is an excellent system for self defence too. But this is not its highest objective. You might find my article on the thread "Kung Fu - A karmic burden?" useful.

Andrew

[Ronan]

Dear James, I'm sorry in advance for the shortness of my reply, but it's Valentines Day and I gotta get back to writing poetry!

The videos on our website show different levels of sparring, maybe the clips you mentioned were of beginner students. Though their sparring may not be very high level yet, the main factor is that they were using their Kung Fu forms in sparring and not resorting to boxing or kick boxing. With time and dedicated practice, their skills in sparring will deepen, but they will still be using their Kung Fu forms.

This is the same in any fighting art. If a begginer in a Boxing gym becomes impatient because he can't twist his hips into punches like his trainer has told him to do, or he can't get any power into his jab, he may through frustration start kicking, or throw his partner to the ground and start grappeling with him. In this way he'd never learn to use his correct boxing forms in sparring.

But if he did as his trainer said and systematically trained to fight using the techniques he's been shown, he would, over time, become competant in sparring using those techniches, even if at the beggining he couldn't apply the techniques perfectly. This unfortunately is the case with most Kung Fu schools today. They become frustrated that they can't use their Kung Fu forms in combat immediately after learning them, and so they abandon them and resort back to Kick Boxing, which anyone on the recent Kung Fu course in Malaysia will tell you, is actually tougher to apply in sparring than real Kung Fu!

Best wishes

Ronan

[Jonny Say]

Dear James

Thank you for you questions, they are raised in a polite and interested way which is always good.

Firstly, attacks were often left out while the defender responded and counter-attacked. Although I haven’t been in a proper fight, many videos on the internet show that, in a real confrontation, punches are pulled back.

As Ronan Siheng has already stated the videos often show beginner stages in sparring, and will later develop their skills and depth.

Often the videos are methods leading to free sparing, with elements left out on purpose in order that the partners can work on skills. As one proceeds through the methodology more factors are introduced untill one is eventually sparring freely.

Secondly, I have noticed that sometimes attacks are finished (for example, a punch is fully stretched out) before the receiving motion is made. This would allow the punch to connect in real life. However, I’d appreciate your thoughts on these two points. Do you have any comments or thoughts?

This may be a matter of timing and spacing in that the beginners may be working on this skill and haven't yet perfected it (and so it looks like punches may connect).

Or it could demonstrate that in Shaolin Kung Fu there are many many ways to counter an attack. One can be to allow a stage where as you said the "punch is fully stretched out" or the old energy is spent then to counter when the opponent is in a weak position. Or on the other hand one can counter straight away.

I would recommend watching the videos more from the standpoint of training progressions on the road to being able to fight/defend oneself. And also urge you to gain first hand experience if you are interested in Shaolin Wahnam.

[Guest]

Thank you very much for your thoughts. They have completely answered my query, and now I’m much more assured that Shaolin Wahnam students are, at higher levels, able to cope with attacks that are pulled back.

Thanks again

James

[Antonius]

A similar thread here: http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4540