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  • What is Traditional Chinese Medicine

    Dear brothers and sisters, dear friends,

    This is a continuation from the thread ‘Differences between Original Chinese Medicine and Modern Chinese Medicine'.
    I would like to share with you one of my latest and humble research on the subject, i.e what is ‘Original Traditional Chinese Medicine’, if we would like to compare it to the so-called watershed versions. Please note that I am not a master myself, I am only sincerely searching and trying to improve my understanding. Please do not hesitate to add your opinions even if they are contradictory to mine

    The diversity of Traditional Chinese Medicine is expressed through the many schools and masters of the art, its unity in the same spiritual and natural roots

    First of all, I think we should beware of the misconceptions induced by dualism thinking. For example, ‘original’ does not necessary mean ‘old’ or ‘ancestral’; on the other hand, ‘watershed’ does not necessary mean ‘recent’ or ‘modern’. In others words, some authentic and high level living doctors are still practising today, while some doctors who were giving treatment in the old, very old days could have been of a low standard. Such thinking would implement that there is no more skilled practitioner in any field today, because we live in a modern period (‘oh, it’s all watershed!’) compared to the past people (‘always original, right?’). Obviously, this is wrong. And insulting for all the modern living masters…

    Let me make a rough analogy. As an art deeply rooted in spirituality and energy cultivation and understanding, Traditional Chinese Medicine share some common features with martial arts, especially Shaolin Kung Fu. It is no surprise that since the ages of time many advanced students and masters were (and are) proficient in TCM, whatever Shaolin schools they may have trained in. Famous masters from Shaolin Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut, Chow Gar or Eagle Claw as well as many others lineages were (and are) famous for their knowledge and skills in treating people. Great Grandmaster Wong Fei Hung was most famous for running his ‘Po Chi Lam’ clinic. White Crane master Kwan Tak Yin was a famous herbalist. And what about Sifu! For those interested in Shaolin Kung Fu, we know that what is practiced today in every good (original) school is not exactly the same as what was practiced in the past. This is much more obvious if we compare today’s training with the 6th or 7th century training.

    Sifu has superbly wrote in The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu: Chapter 3 ‘Their achievements were cumulative, with each generation of masters adding new techniques and skills to a growing repertoire.‘, Chapter 6 ‘Today when you learn a Shaolin Kung Fu set (…) you inherit the crystallization of hundreds of years of Kung Fu development’.

    The same thing has happened with Traditional Chinese Medicine. I would like to share an extract from a personal communication from world acclaimed Chinese Doctor Philippe Sionneau, who had the kindness to explain to me some difficult points about TCM. Originally written in French, the translation is mine, it may lack the original flavour, but the meaning is still there:

    ‘… First of all you must understand one fundamental thing : Chinese Medicine is not One ! If one studies the history of Chinese Medicine, one will find out that there are different trends, and what we know to this day is the aggregate from different contributions, from different periods, from different great masters. It is of the utmost importance to understand this, in order not to be caught in the common trap of thinking that there was a perfect Chinese Medicine at a one given time in the past, which has then slowly debased little by little, to the extent that the worst Chinese Medicine is the one practiced today. (…) Chinese Medicine today is somewhat different but it is difficult to affirm that it is less valuable than the oldest ‘approaches’, in every field…’

    I find this inspiring. Let’s go further.

    Many seekers of truth are willing to find about the authenticity of the art they are learning. So are some TCM students. Some are proudly proclaiming the greatness of their lineage, some are eager to claim that no more good TCM is practiced in China nowadays. Some are thinking we could never get back to the grandeur of the Nei Jing period. On the other hand, some are revering everything that comes from China, as long as the man in white coat is Asian. Everyone has the right to his opinion. But, for the sake of Traditional Chinese Medicine and humanity, it might be a good thing to calm down and try to make things (a little bit) clear.

    TCM is a living art. It is a beautiful and wonderful living art. Its essence lies in the spiritual understanding of Nature, and its emanations Yin Yang. Its practice lies on the manipulation of Chi, or energy, in order to restore health. Why? Because disease occurs when Yin and Yang are not in harmony, i.e when energy levels (whatever be the cause) are not sufficient or disharmonious. As a living art, creation is a specific feature of it. Once the paradigm is understood and respected, one can explore its deepness and heights, i.e creating and refining techniques and concepts.

    Restoring energy balance through the eternal laws of Yin and Yang is the foundation of Traditional Chinese Medicine. This is the root.

    Then, masters of the past and present have elaborated about the tools to restore harmony (i.e the weapons to fight the enemy) and the deepening of principles (i.e the tactics and strategies to achieve maximum results). These are the branches.

    I believe we should not mistake the branches for the root.

    The incessant perfection of this system (due to the constant work of dedicated practitioners through centuries) implies that good TCM is not necessary ancient TCM.
    Also, the specialisation of different masters implies that even if there is one map, the roads to achieve the results may differ. Like Shaolin evolved and developed in many branches, TCM did. Of course, this does not imply the over specialization because a Chinese doctor has an holistic approach of diseases.

    There are many overlapping factors, but for the convenience of this post I might arbitrary write that specialization in Traditional Chinese Medicine covers 3 main areas:

    1. Emphasizing a specific approach, then developing new strategies and treatments (but always following the original concepts). For example during the Yuan dynasty the foundation of the Stimulating Earth School (Bu Tu Pai) by the great master Li Dong Yuan (1180-1252), who has been inspired by a new approach: concentring on the internal origin of diseases –especially the weakening of the Spleen and Stomach-. Li Dong Yuan’s principles (stimulating the Spleen’s Qi and Yang) can be found in his masterpiece ‘Pi Wei Lun’ (Treatise on the Spleen and Stomach). Needless to say, that school is standing on the laws of Yin and Yang and all the same rules shared by the Classics.

    2. Specializing in tools, i.e studying and working more precisely on one of the specific ‘weapon’ available, for example herbal therapy, or acupuncture, or Chi Kung. Many good Chinese doctors are skilful in all those areas, but have specialized in one of them (i.e are more skilful in that area).

    3. Specializing in specific areas of treatment, for example Dit Da (injuries from falls and hits), or gynaecology, or degenerative diseases.

    Chinese Medicine has been evolving from its conception till now. Evolving throughout centuries, each generation of masters adding their own discoveries and ameliorations. For example, some masterpieces have been written in order to correct errors and clear difficult points of the Nei Jing. Those works have been written many centuries after the Inner Classic (Zhen Jiu Jia Yi Jing 259, Lei Jing 1624, Yi Zong Jin Jian 1742…). In our modern days, some important works have been done in China; some of these works are about confronting the information found in the Classics to real live clinical experience.

    As a TCM student, I should stay humble in front of such dedication and such amount of knowledge. Diversification helps remembering the unique origin of Chinese Medicine yet its numerous schools; it is like standing in front of a awe-inspiring and beautiful 2000 years old tree, whose trunk gave birth to numerous branches. Those branches blossoming in superb flowers. Each flower, each branch comes from the same trunk, whose root is Earth, and roof Heaven.

    The current practice of Traditional Chinese Medicine in modern China

    Some faculties are still preserving the essence of the art. Some are not. Some teachers are skilful, some are not. Some doctors are offering true TCM treatments, based on an holistic approach of the patient (and defining a unique treatment for each patient), some are only giving ‘package treatment’, i.e symptomatic use of points and pre-defined herbal concoctions.

    It may be against preconceived ideas, but it is interesting to note that pulse diagnosis is thoroughly taught in China today (not in every faculties though), but difficult to learn outside of China, simply because few people outside China have been taught that skill. What is practiced in China today may or may not be Traditional Chinese Medicine, depending on numerous factors (especially the teacher of course). Like in our western countries what you may learn when you practice Shaolin Kung Fu, may or may not be the essence of the art.
    I think, from my own experience (which is limited), that being extreme in such a subject may be wrong: idealizing all the mainland Chinese teachings may reveal some disappointments; on the other hand, refusing to find out if real teachings are still available in China may lead to regrets.

    Spiritual and philosophical background as a tenet of Chinese Medicine

    In my opinion, this point is of the extreme importance. I will try to elaborate about this in another post. Please don’t wait for my next post to share your thoughts and experiences!

    The fundamentals of Chinese Medicine practice: what is relevant to an authentic paradigm

    Many schools, many masters, many approaches, but some common features. Those common features are the ones making the difference between Original Chinese Medicine and the watershed versions. To give some examples:

    1. Concepts of Yin and Yang, theories of Chi circulation
    2. Use of traditional diagnosis (4 steps/8 rules), importance of pulse diagnosis.
    3. Use of different needles manipulating techniques, in order to ‘catch’ and manipulate the energy (thus, to work efficiently on it).
    4. Importance of the spiritual enhancement of the patient in the treatment (relationship between the doctor and the patient).
    5. Harmonization of each treatment.

    Hmm… Enough for today. I take a deep breath and will start my pen again, soon.

    Thanks for reading. Please share your opinions!

    Maxime.
    Last edited by Maxime; 4 November 2005, 07:45 PM.

    Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

    Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


    France: www.institut-anicca.com

    Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

  • #2
    Thankyou dear brother for this excellent, very thought provoking and inspiring thread.

    My opinion on TCM/Original Chinese Medicine has changed quite dramatically to what I previously stated on the forum.

    The points you make here cover much of my own opinions, realisations and the teachings of my current degree in TCM.

    I recently bought Giovanni Maciocia's new book "The Foundations of Chinese Medicine" and found the preface alone very illuminating and inspiring.

    He mentions the fact that it was infact westerners that coined the term "traditional" as an appendage to the name of the schools that were set up for them to learn "Chinese Medicine", or "Zhong Yi" as it is known in China.

    He fully admits that much of what he says is only his opinion, but to me its a highly educated and experienced opinion.

    I personally think that whichever system is the 'real' thing or is not, is no longer a major issue to me. What is more important to me is if something can help people or not.

    On a side note, I think the point you make about humility is of uptmost importance for practitioners of this incredible art.

    I have much more to say on this thread but for now I dont have much time.

    I will return later, as the topic of this thread is very close to my heart and is my main occupation.

    Salutation and grattitude to you Maxime.

    I look forward to your next instalment.
    OOOOO
    Gate Gate ParaGate ParaSamGate Bodhi Svaha
    There are no wrong turns. Only wrong thinking on the turns our life has taken.
    - Zen saying
    www.shaolinwahnam.co.uk
    http://london.samye.org/london/
    www.zentreasures.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi everyone. Of course you knew I would join this.

      If we are going to talk about TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine), then we need to start by defining it. Luckily, this part is easy -- TCM was invented by Mao Ze Dong's government during the Cultural Revolution in China in the 1950s & 1960s.

      Talking about Shaolin and Kung Fu masters practicing TCM only confuses the subject. They did not practice TCM. They practiced various kinds of Chinese Medicine, but definitely not TCM.

      This would be exactly like saying that Wong Fei Hong practiced Wushu. He did not. Wushu is a modern invention (also from the 50s and 60s). Wong Fei Hong practiced genuine Shaolin Kung Fu. Modern Wushu would have been unrecognizable to him.

      Without force training and combat application, Wushu is an entirely different art. It is almost certain that he would have referred to Wushu as "Flowery Fists, Embroidery Kicks," which is a polite way of saying that it's not Kung Fu.

      So please -- let's not confuse readers by talking about TCM as something that existed before 1949.
      Sifu Anthony Korahais
      www.FlowingZen.com
      (Click here to learn more about me.)

      Comment


      • #4
        wrong word and wrong comparison

        Dear Anthony Sihing,

        Please forgive my exuberance but, I have both to agree and disagree with you.

        I agree, when it comes to semantics, that TCM is a word that have been invented by Mao Ze Dong. But we should not mistake the word for the skill. Both systems of medicine (Chinese and Western) have been emphasized by the communist China.

        I don’t think your comparison between TCM and Wushu is adequate. TCM is a change of words. Wushu is a change of skills. The difference is huge. Though, I must admit, maybe some ‘religious’ concepts have been suppressed in the teachings of TCM, but the high level of skills have certainly not disappeared like the ones in Shaolin Kung Fu (in mainland China) did.

        Why? Because TCM was a way to have healthy people (and healthy workers to work for the government), while Kung Fu was a martial art (equals danger for the government’s supremacy). Kung Fu was a threat to the government, while Chinese Medicine was an help.
        Thus it has never been in the interest of the Chinese government to create a ‘demonstrative version’ of Chinese Medicine. Kung Fu masters were persecuted by the communists (because they were Kung Fu masters), Chinese doctors were not (or if they were, this was for other reasons).

        Nevertheless, we can point out the ‘barefoot doctors’ of the campaign areas, who certainly, for most of them, failed to reach higher levels of skills (because they were not ‘supposed’ to). In the big cities, deeper teachings have been maintained.

        For example, the famous master Leung Kwok Yuen (a real Chinese master from a father to son lineage) was so requested to teach in China during the 50’s and 60’s that he literally formed hundreds of Chinese Medicine doctors. Later, he settled in North America because he wanted to escape (not the threat of communism) his popularity (I have extracts of his biography, maybe I could share, there are some incredible features…). He continued to share his teachings in Canada. One of my teachers is a direct student, and interestingly he is very eager to call a cat cat (he is ‘fighting’ against the many misconceptions and wrong translations of words that are common in the Western part).

        Sincerely, to me, the only confusing thing is to call TCM some various skills of treating people. This term is too much narrowed, and in many minds it lacks the vast range of skills and concepts inherent to the Chinese Medicine.

        On the other hand, yes, I totally agree, the word TCM didn't exist before 1949.
        Ok, so let’s forget the word TCM, better use Chinese Medicine instead

        Respectfully,

        Maxime
        Last edited by Maxime; 4 November 2005, 11:02 PM.

        Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

        Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


        France: www.institut-anicca.com

        Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Maxime.

          I don’t think your comparison between TCM and Wushu is adequate. TCM is a change of words. Wushu is a change of skills.
          This is where we disagree. Personally, I feel that TCM was a change of skills, not just words. For example. all of the spiritual aspects of the medicine were immediately cut. Furthermore, many of the emotional aspects were also cut.

          When Dr. Hammer (the master at my school) was in China in the 1980s, he was working at a clinic with some TCM doctors. While taking a patient's pulse, he noticed a particular pulse that signified a powerful emotional component to the problem. When he mentioned this to the Chinese doctor (who was also the translator), the doctor dismissed Dr. Hammer's concerns. "She's fine, she's fine, that's not the problem," the doctor said.

          Dr. Hammer noticed this happening often in China whenever he raised issues about the emotions. However, in this particular case, the woman happened to speak English. So she understood what Dr. Hammer was saying, and confirmed his concerns. The Chinese doctor continued to try to dismiss the emotional components, but the patient obviously preferred Dr. Hammer's approach.
          Sifu Anthony Korahais
          www.FlowingZen.com
          (Click here to learn more about me.)

          Comment


          • #6
            Sifu Korahais:

            I agree with you that much of the older style of Chinese Medicine has been deliberately stripped from TCM in the interest of maintaining congruency with the philosophy of the 'Party Line'. There is typically no place for anything 'spiritual' in the Communist World View...and much of what would be viewed as psychological and/or emotional symptomology in the West is unfortunately viewed as dangerously close to 'spiritual' in modern day China. As a result...concerted attempts have been made to eliminate these factors as prime components of the diagnostic and treatment protocols.

            I see this trend as unfortunate for patients since identifying and addressing the emotional or psychological aspects of most...if not all...illnesses and diseases is crucial to treating the 'root' of the condition. In order for the treatment plan is to be successfully 'wholistic' in its scope...rather than merely 'symptomatic' in nature...these factors must be included as primary confirmation markers.
            http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

            Comment


            • #7
              Dear Anthony Sihing, dear Sifu Stier, dear Cymon,

              thank you for your replies.

              I am sorry I am currently 'short of time', but I will continue to post soon.

              Please accept my apologies.

              Have a nice day.

              Maxime.

              Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

              Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


              France: www.institut-anicca.com

              Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Maxime,

                Since you asked for my honest opinion...

                Because TCM was a way to have healthy people (and healthy workers to work for the government).
                I disagree with this as well. You are arguing that the Chinese government was interested in the health of the people. I would argue that they (i.e. Mao) weren't interested in health; they were interested in PRODUCTIVITY. If a patient could continue working, then that was healthy enough.

                Let’s not forget that Mao was responsible for over 50 million Chinese deaths DURING PEACETIME -- far more than any other 20th century leader, including Hitler and Stalin.

                Though, I must admit, maybe some ‘religious’ concepts have been suppressed in the teachings of TCM, but the high level of skills have certainly not disappeared
                TCM is an artifical medicine. It was born of violence and oppression. Mao was the driving force behind the creation of TCM. And once it was created, all other forms of Chinese medicine were squashed. If doctors with high levels of skill survived, it was either because they fled China, or they went into hiding.

                In Mao’s China, taxi drivers had a higher social status than doctors. All Chinese doctors were forced to conform to Mao’s ideas of medicine. Or else. Anyone who disagreed with Mao disappeared. Or their families were threatened. Or they were killed (often along with their families).

                Dr. Shen was one of the many Chinese doctors who fled as a direct result of the oppression of Mao’s regime. Actually, Mao is the reason there are so many good Chinese doctors outside of China – and so few in China.

                When Dr. Hammer was learning from Dr. Shen, he would often notice that Dr. Shen's statements conflicted with what was written in the books. To this, Dr. Shen would respond, “Book wrong.” Many of the books just parrot what Mao and his agencies wrote.

                In Dr. Hammer’s experience, Dr. Shen was right. Most of the TCM books (like CAM, for example) are wrong about important aspects of the medicine. Today, as the dust from the Cultural Revolution finally settles down, many older Chinese doctors are coming out of hiding in China. Finally able to speak freely, they are saying the same thing that Dr. Shen has been saying for years: “Book wrong.”
                Sifu Anthony Korahais
                www.FlowingZen.com
                (Click here to learn more about me.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dear Anthony Sihing,

                  thanks for your opinions. They are welcomed. In fact, I must admit that despite apparent contradictions I agree with you.

                  It was not my intent to spread the idea of a 'good' Mao government. I certainly dare not! I am fully aware of the dramatic murders and persecutions. But having healthy workers (please note: workers) was in the interest of the productivity. Mao was not interested in the health of the people, but in the longevity of his workers. There is no contradiction here I believe.

                  Hmmm, concerning the disparition of the spiritual dimension in the new TCM, I must admit that some of my teachers are disappointed of the lack of undertsanding of the universal principles on which has been built Chinese Medicine. On the other hand, some are not interested in them. But yes, this aspect was certainly a threat to the government, and it is likely that the communist have 'cut' this part from the teaching (like they persecuted all the religious institutes of tha country).

                  Anyway, some good Chinese Medicine is still available in China today, I have reports of effective techniques and treatments. Nevertheless, I agree that those may be outside the range of the spiritual dimension I'm afraid. And the spiritual dimension is the leading factor of the 'lower levels' of life manifestation. So, in that sense, I agree also that TCM is not Chinese Medicine.

                  The fact that your teacher has experienced a 'watershed diagnosis' is certainly an example of the debasement of Chinese Medicine, but this does not prove that all the teachers in China are incompetent.

                  I already gave an example of a Chinese doctor (a real one) who was invited by the Chinese government to spread his art right there. But, maybe, he has not been able to teach the spiritual aspects ... I sincerely don't know.

                  You mentionned a TCM book 'CAM', I don't know about it. Please, could you give details? What are those important aspects that are wrong in that book?

                  Thanks for discussing

                  Maxime

                  Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

                  Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


                  France: www.institut-anicca.com

                  Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Me again

                    Just another thought as I re-read your post again:
                    Originally posted by Antonius
                    TCM is an artifical medicine.
                    If what is practiced today in China is only TCM, then I must disagree with this statement. I know some people that have studied and practiced as professional doctors in several hospitals in China (some for several years), then came back to Europe. If I agree with the statement that they learned TCM (though some may have learned original Chinese Medicine), I must nevertheless disagree with the fact that what they practice is an artificial medicine. It certainly works, and it certainly has helped thousands of suffering patients to recover and to be free from their problems. Maybe this was not 'spiritual' medicine, but it certainly worked effectively. No placebo. Not artificial.

                    I think your word 'artificial' is a little bit strong and confusing. But maybe I am wrong.

                    I don't mean to say that we should not reach the levels of the great masters, but I have respect for something that release the suffering of men, women and children.

                    See you soon,

                    Maxime

                    Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

                    Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


                    France: www.institut-anicca.com

                    Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Once again...I am in agreement with Sifu Korahais. Chairman Mao and his PRC cronies 'threw the baby out with the bath water'! That is to say that they either discarded or actively sought to destroy much of great value from the culture of Old China...in favor of poor substitutes created by their New China. And they actively persecuted and oppressed those who represented the excellence of the older methods.

                      As a result...they motivated most of 'the brightest and the best' to flee China for more favorable destinations. This was especially true of those whose areas of expertise and reputation was either Classical Chinese Medicine or Traditional Kung-Fu...or both...which used to be the norm in the 'old days'. This is the reason that my teacher, Sifu Lee Wing-Wah, and many others initially left China...never to return. And those who didn't leave China...for whatever reason...suffered terrible persecution and oppression if allowed to live...or were imprisoned and then executed! End of problem!

                      I guess I owe Mao a tremendous debt of gratititude in this regard as I probably never would have had the opportunity to learn Internal Kung-Fu and Classical Chinese Medicine had Sifu Lee and others I have studied with remained in China after the Communist Revolution.

                      So...posthumously...thanks, Mao! You da man that made it all possible for alot of us!
                      http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dear Sifu Stier,

                        this is going to be from the heart,

                        I just love the way you write things. This is direct and effective, with a lot of humour (which, in a deeper layer, is often not).

                        Respectfully,

                        Maxime.

                        Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

                        Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


                        France: www.institut-anicca.com

                        Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dear Maxime:

                          Thank you very much for your kind words. Please know that I admire the exuberance and fervor of your posts as well.

                          I wish you great success and fulfillment in your studies and practice of Chinese Medicine. I hope you will apply the same exuberance and fervor with which you write to the treament of your patients...that they may be blessed with healing as a result of your efforts in their behalf!
                          http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            dear Sifu Stier,



                            your words are strenghtening my will. Thank you.

                            Maxime

                            Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

                            Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


                            France: www.institut-anicca.com

                            Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

                            Comment

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