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Dark Dragon Draws Water

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  • Dark Dragon Draws Water

    The following questions are taken from one of the many e-mails I receive. I thought it would be nice to put my answers on the forum to share with others who are curious.

    Picture 2 depicts Fierce Tiger-Single Tiger. Now how does one get from there to the next pic that shows the application for Dark Dragon?
    It's a good question, but it's also funny. Looking at the pictures (http://shaolin.org/review/dark2.html), I can see your confusion. I was the same way. I would stare at various pictures for hours trying to figure out applications.

    What I eventually learned is that pictures just don't cut it. They may be worth a 1000 words, but these patterns are so profound that you'd need at least 100,000 words to describe them. Here's a few more words to whet your appetite for learning directly from Sifu:

    In the pictures, Sifu opens with Fierce Tiger Crosses Valley. Goh Kok Hin Sihing responds with Single Tiger Emerges Cave, and then a Black Tiger Steals Heart. What you don't see in the picture is Sifu swallowing the Black Tiger and then smoothly circling back with Dark Dragon Draws Water, taming Goh's Black Tiger (just after it has been spent) with his right hand while simultaneously attacking Goh's now exposed ribs with his left Dragon Palm.

    In the picture, you can almost (but not quite) grasp how Goh gets twisted over himself by Sifu's counter. This should give you some idea of the depth of this pattern, but let me assure you that it is much more profound in person. My description may make it seem clearer, but it will not be truly "clear" until you learn it from Sifu. And when it does become clear, you will probably say to yourself, "Wow!"

    Goh's response is equally profound. Most people would not have a counter to Sifu's Dark Dragon. People might say, "I'd jump away" or "I'd hit him with the other hand" or "I'd kick," but this shows a lack of understanding. Despite having a 2nd degree black belt in Karate and many years of fighting experience when I learned this pattern, I was completely unable to uncover a counter. If Sifu had not shown me the counter, I could have spent years trying to figure it out.

    One "secret" in that picture is that Goh is fully "tamed." His right arm is pressed against his chest, upsetting his balance. Sifu is controlling not only Goh's arm but his entire body from the elbow. Furthermore, Sifu's Dragon palm comes out immediately after Goh spends his attack, so just as you feel your arm being tamed and your balance being upset, BANG, you get hit with a Dragon Palm that you can hardly even see.

    So what's the solution? Simple. Bar Big Boss! By pivoting to a solid horse stance, Goh removes his ribs from danger while simultaneously "taming two with one," i.e. taming both of Sifu's hands with just one of his own hands (Goh's left). Immediately after this, his hand, which is already in Sifu's face, attacks Sifu's throat with a rising dragon pierce (palm up).

    Chop Hua Mountain is depicted in pic 8 of the Dark Dragon Sequence. It looks very similar to Immortal Emerges From Cave (is that the right name?).
    The caption for the picture is wrong. In the picture, Sifu is using "Golden Star Hangs at Corner." But these days, Sifu usually teaches that pattern as Choping Hua Mountain instead, which is a chop to the opponent's temple, neck or collar bone. The response to Choping Hua Mountain is the same, i.e. Immortal Emerges from Cave.
    Last edited by Antonius; 16 October 2004, 01:37 PM.
    Sifu Anthony Korahais
    www.FlowingZen.com
    (Click here to learn more about me.)

  • #2
    Anthony Sihing ,

    Thanks for the answers ! They are very helpful

    I think I understand the mechanics of the move reasonably well after your description . I cannot wait to learn it properly . It's description reminds me a lot of Taijiquan applications , like Jade Lady Threads Shuttle .

    Bar Big Boss is such a versitile move . I am constantly amazed at learning of new ways to apply it .

    " But these days, Sifu usually teaches that pattern as Choping Hua Mountain instead "

    Does this mean we should practise sequence 4 with Chopping Hua Mountain instead of Golder Star ?

    Best Wishes ,
    Kevin

    Comment


    • #3
      That's a very interessting tread!
      Many thanks to Anthony for sharing your knowledge.

      Does this mean we should practise sequence 4 with Chopping Hua Mountain instead of Golder Star
      I think Chopping the Hua Mountain is a very good alternative. I have learnt the Combat sequence 4 with the application of Hang a golden star at the corner.
      But Sifu mentioned that instead of a Golden Star we could use Chopping the Hua Mountain.
      Personally I really like the Chopping technique, as in my case it is easier to perform than the Golden Star. But that's a lack of my ability. I am training and learning to apply both ways, wich may be an advantage.

      Respectfully

      Roland
      "From formless to form, from form to formless"

      26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
      Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

      Website: www.enerqi.ch

      Comment


      • #4
        I have learnt this sequence from 2 Wahnam instructors, one for the first time this morning (in what I must say was a great lesson thank's again Sifu) and both taught it with chop the Hua mountain. I must agree that this is a very interesting and enlightening sequence to learn. Bar the big boss is a great pattern for learning the versatility of stances in combat application.

        Comment


        • #5
          Currently Sequence 4 is taught with "Golden Star" as is Sequence 5. Sequence 6 and 7 both use "Chop Hua Mountain".

          For the sake of application both could be implemented. But the "official" versions are as above.

          Andrew
          Sifu Andrew Barnett
          Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

          Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
          Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
          Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

          Comment


          • #6
            Right you are, I meant sequence 6 actually. I also learnt sequence 4 with hang a golden star. That what you get for posting at 3.30 in the morning!

            Comment


            • #7
              Right you are, I meant sequence 6 actually. I also learnt sequence 4 with hang a golden star. That what you get for posting at 3.30 in the morning!
              But you pointed out a very good alternative for sequence 4!! I like performing it with a Chop!

              Respectfully

              Rolo
              "From formless to form, from form to formless"

              26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
              Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

              Website: www.enerqi.ch

              Comment


              • #8
                Roland,

                What counter will you practise, if you do Chop The Hua Mountain in sequence 4?

                I ask because I think (although I know but little) that Immortal Emerges from Cave is one of the most useful techniques there is. Read the recent account from JamieR about how he used it to stop himself getting a broken bottle thrust in his face.



                I'd think very carefully before you spend valuable practise time on another technique.

                Regards,
                Chris.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What counter will you practise, if you do Chop The Hua Mountain in sequence 4
                  The counter remains the same: Immortal emerges from Cave with the left hand (in case of CS 4).
                  I fully agree with you. It is one of the most useful techniques/applications. Because it is so effective I haven't thought about many other alterative counters so far.

                  Respectfully

                  Roland
                  "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                  26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                  Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                  Website: www.enerqi.ch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Roland,

                    Vielleicht willst Du einige Variationen heute Abend versuchen ??

                    Andrew

                    P.S. I just asked Roland if he would like to try out some variations at this evening's class
                    Sifu Andrew Barnett
                    Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                    Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                    Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                    Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by WahnamCH
                      Roland,

                      Vielleicht willst Du einige Variationen heute Abend versuchen ??

                      Andrew

                      P.S. I just asked Roland if he would like to try out some variations at this evening's class
                      Roland,

                      Sounds like you've already got it covered

                      Regards,
                      Chris.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Vielleicht willst Du einige Variationen heute Abend versuchen ??
                        Good idea!

                        Sounds like you've already got it covered
                        Shhhhhhh

                        Respectfully

                        Roland
                        "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                        26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                        Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                        Website: www.enerqi.ch

                        Comment

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