Mind Training

[Chiahua]

That post should be added to the "horse stance" knowledge database, because that's most definitely one of the more lucid explanations I've read (Sifu Wong notwithstanding...)! Kudos sir.
I think my sifu uses "intent" and the above mentioned visualization to sort of aid the "charging up" process for beginners, since I've been a dead fish for quite some time now! After training zhan zhuang you could imagine the smell....

On a more serious note the "lifting heavy objects" visualization probably falls short when you try to do the shaolin cosmos qigong; lifting the sky being a pretty good example.

[TommyC]

It is my belief that being able to be mentally/emotionally calm whilst under stance practice pressure will increase my ability to be mentally/emotionally calm under life's pressures

I couldn't agree more Marcus.

This thread has prompted a couple of questions for me.
1) If energy follows to where we place the mind (be it fist or dan tien or other place) does energy just flow freely when we think of nothing? Is this, then, the art of self manifested chi flow and stance training?

2) Since Sigung asserts that our enery can be transmitted beyond the limitation of our bodies, does this mean that when we think of nothing our energy flows everywhere (in all that there is) or MUST it be directed?

[Marcus]

Excellent questions TommyC. I'm tempted to get deeply philosophical about how everything is inter-connected and that we are all One and what not, especially in regards to your second question. But seeing as how this would be conjecture on my part and not based on my own experience I shall leave your questions to my more experienced brothers and sisters to answer.

Watching with interest

Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Yevin Orion]

Interesting questions Tom...I look forward to seeing any answers (or attempts to answer )

I'm not sure I'm completely clear on the difference between no-thought and non-thought. Anyone care to clarify?

Many thanks

[Antonius]

I'm sure you would FEEL the difference if hit by each of the three

Whenever possible, I try not to hit students while driving points home.

[Dan]

Non-thought is not thought or no-thought.

For example; I think of a book, this is thought, then I empty my mind, this is no-thought. Non-thought comes before the thought or no-thought process arises.

But, from another perspective, non-thought can both be thought or no-thought, and can occur during, before or after these processes.

Non-thought transcends dualistic thinking, whereas thought and no-thought are still dualistic.

No-thought is still in the realm of attachment to phenomena, let go of ‘that’ and achieve non-thought.

As one famous Zen master said “You still have that!”

There is a detailed, but concise, explanation in the Platform Sutra by the 6th Patriarch Hui Neng, and there is also excellent commentary by Sifu in the Complete Book of Shaolin.

A fundamental point is not to intellectualize about these distinctions, because then you are at the thought level. Just let go of your thoughts, do not try and suppress them.

I am not sure if this will help of not but picture a calm pool of water with no disturbance, this is original mind. When a mental process arises, be this an active thought or the act of suppressing thought, then it is like dropping a stone into this pool.
The ripples caused by the stone are what we perceive as differentiated and separate phenomena, i.e. our phenomenal world. No-thought is still a thought process so is the same as a thought.
When we let go of the thought process then the pool is calm and flat and we see that ultimate reality is undifferentiated and encompasses all which we previously perceived as individual phenomena.

The 6th Patriarch would call this ‘seeing your original mind/face’.

So, non-thought is important, and is a very important part of Zen, so stop thinking and start ‘doing’!

[TommyC]

I'm tempted to get deeply philosophical about how everything is inter-connected and that we are all One [But] this would be conjecture on my part and not based on my own experience

I’m constantly there at the moment. I try not to get bogged down in analysing an individual experience but try to look to its wider implications for a big picture answer. Mainly, I think (and as a bit of a tie in ) from the fact that standing in stances trains my mind how to overcome an individual muscular discomfort in favour of an overall gain in both physical and mental health.

When we let go of the thought process then the pool is calm and flat and we see that ultimate reality is undifferentiated and encompasses all which we previously perceived as individual phenomena.

Many thanks Sifu, this really gets to the essence of my, if not all, questions. The Platform Sutra is definitely going higher up my reading list.

[Yevin Orion]

Originally posted by Dan
So, non-thought is important, and is a very important part of Zen, so stop thinking and start ‘doing’!

Thank you Sifu for your clarification. I'll have to get to reading 'The Complete Book of Shaolin' as soon as I'm done with 'The Art of Chi Kung'

[Darryl]

does energy just flow freely when we think of nothing?

I would say yes and no. Yes, because chi is always flowing, always in motion and no, because by the very nature of constant interaction, blockages and deviations are created, implemented and then influence everything else around them. Continuing Dan Sihing's example, thinking of 'nothing' is still thinking of 'something'. If you are doing 'nothing' while doing 'nothing', then your chi will flow freely and uninterupted.

Is this, then, the art of self manifested chi flow and stance training?

Much bigger question and one that I can't and won't really be able to answer. Again, I would say yes and no, depending on your interpretation and experience. This is the sort of question that is best asked in person, to ascertain your actual question. If you mean that by thinking of nothing, are we training to have an empty mind, then your answer is in your Sifu's post. If you are asking if 'doing nothing' is Self Manifested Chi Flow then I would say no, although I would certainly say it is one of the keys. Also, I would say that Self Manifested Chi Flow is one of the keys to doing nothing. Alternately (or far simply), Wu Wei - 'Do nothing and the universe will come to you'.

I also used to have the 'rational mind' supplying all sorts of perfectly reasonable (and in some cases downright ridiculous) theories and explanations in regards to my practice and experiences. Now, 'mentally relaxed' and 'Wu Wei' are the cornerstone's of my personal practice.

[TommyC]

Thank you for this reply Darryl Sisook (please let me know if this relationship is incorrect)

If you are doing 'nothing' while doing 'nothing', then your chi will flow freely and uninterrupted.

I see the ambiguities in my question now, this is the answer to the question I was asking.

If you mean that by thinking of nothing, are we training to have an empty mind, then your answer is in your Sifu's post.

Yes, indeed.

If you are asking if 'doing nothing' is Self Manifested Chi Flow then I would say no, although I would certainly say it is one of the keys. Also, I would say that Self Manifested Chi Flow is one of the keys to doing nothing.

Yes, I was wandering about that too.

Wu Wei - 'Do nothing and the universe will come to you'.

This has significantly more meaning to me now, many thanks.