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Hi all, the thread about so-called 'Insomnia' got me to thinking about this.
I know that just training in both Shaolin Kungfu and Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung should help to train the mind, but I was wondering, are there any exercises or such that specifically help in mind training?
Is there anyone here who has any advice or experiences they'd like to share in this regard? Hopeful words of encouragement maybe?
Thanks
Rory
Rory
"The holistic training of Shaolin Kungfu with Chi Kung makes one physically fit, emotionally stable and mentally fresh: if one is not physically fit, one can hardly fight; if one is not emotionally stable, one cannot apply one's combat skills; if one is not mentally fresh, one cannot make split-second decisions." Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit (Sigung) - The Art of Shaolin Kungfu
My 2 pennies worth. It seems from my experience that many students run into trouble with the "mind" element of Shaolin Wahnam training. Mind training without the direct transmission/instruction of a master can lead to insidious damage. Though having said that Sifu's books have many examples of mind training practice. For example in the Art of Chi Kung p.116 Reaching the subconcious Mind in Meditation. Sifu explains a method of mind training. One which I look forward to practicing once I move down to Devon.
My very limited experience of stance training in Shaolin Wahnam Kung fu tells me that this is going to be an incredibly poweful training in Mind. Being able to relax physically whilst 2 minutes into horse stance is one thing (hey I've only just started out), my being able to relax mentally is another. I listen to my mind shouting: "stand up!", "Give up!", "I don't want to do this!" and other unhelpful thoughts and it makes my practice very difficult. Scattering my energy. I smile from my heart, breath a little deeper and try (not always succesfully) to calm my Mind/thoughts. It is my belief that being able to be mentally/emotionally calm whilst under stance practice pressure will increase my ability to be mentally/emotionally calm under life's pressures. This to me is a very high form of Mind training.
Regarding words of encouragement I think it was Jeffery who said: "Do what the Master tells you, don't do what the Master hasn't told you, Respect the Master". These are the words which my practice is based on.
May all beings be happy
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Budda
Originally posted by Marcus Being able to relax physically whilst 2 minutes into horse stance is one thing (hey I've only just started out), my being able to relax mentally is another. I listen to my mind shouting: "stand up!", "Give up!", "I don't want to do this!" and other unhelpful thoughts and it makes my practice very difficult. Scattering my energy. I smile from my heart, breath a little deeper and try (not always succesfully) to calm my Mind/thoughts. It is my belief that being able to be mentally/emotionally calm whilst under stance practice pressure will increase my ability to be mentally/emotionally calm under life's pressures. This to me is a very high form of Mind training.
You know, I knew this, but somehow never quite realized it in this way. Thanks Marcus Sipak! You're more helpful than you realize.
And don't feel bad about the 2 minutes, I've only been practicing for 2 1/2 weeks and I can just about hold each stance for a minute! I just keep reminding myself of all the benefits I will gain from the training, and I don't have to look far for that! Just look at Sifu or Sigung! Always so happy, smiling, so energetic! That's about all the inspiration you could need!
Rory
Rory
"The holistic training of Shaolin Kungfu with Chi Kung makes one physically fit, emotionally stable and mentally fresh: if one is not physically fit, one can hardly fight; if one is not emotionally stable, one cannot apply one's combat skills; if one is not mentally fresh, one cannot make split-second decisions." Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit (Sigung) - The Art of Shaolin Kungfu
Originally posted by cnholmes No, I don't mind training.
Lol, can always count on you for a laugh Chris!
Rory
"The holistic training of Shaolin Kungfu with Chi Kung makes one physically fit, emotionally stable and mentally fresh: if one is not physically fit, one can hardly fight; if one is not emotionally stable, one cannot apply one's combat skills; if one is not mentally fresh, one cannot make split-second decisions." Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit (Sigung) - The Art of Shaolin Kungfu
Marcus, I will remember to hit you on the head with my staff next course while you are doing stance training to help rid you of the though of standing up!
On a serious point remember to differentiate between ‘Non-Thought’ and ‘No-Thought’.
What would be the difference between non-thought and no-thought?
In Wahnam stance training, such as horse stance, are you instructed to sit with intent? For example would you be instructed to "sit while standing up" (as in extend the tailbone down while raising the crown of the head)? Or visualizing carrying heavy objects? My instructor says this is key to "being alive" whereas if one is too comfortable you "become dead" in your training......
I can't believe you put "Horse stance" and "too comfortable" in the same thought!
But seriously, our technique for Zhan Zhuang is simply to "sit" on the stance (if that makes sense) and gently count your breaths at dantian. While maintaining the stance, it is important to stay relaxed.
We do not use visualizations like carrying heavy objects.
However, despite my joke, I do know what you mean about being too comfortable. The feeling in Zhan Zhuang (whatever the stance) should definitely be "alive." Some people confuse being relaxed with being limp. Perhaps a better term for "relaxed" is "letting go of tension and letting your chi flow freely."
This is tricky to do over the Internet, but I've explained this a few times in person by showing three different types of a fist. The first extreme is where I hold out a limp fist that is like a dead fish. It has no energy and is not "alive." The second extreme is a tight, clenched fist. This has energy, but it is not flowing and is all locked up.
The third and correct fist (for internal martial arts, at least) is a "charged" fist which is not tense, not limp, but full of energy. If you saw these three fists in person, I'm sure you would notice the subtle differences easily.
Some people do Taijiquan like a dead fish. Some people do Shaolin Kungfu like a robot. Both of these extremes are incorrect from my perspective. I think the analogy extends (somehow) to Zhan Zhuang.
The third and correct fist (for internal martial arts, at least) is a "charged" fist which is not tense, not limp, but full of energy. If you saw these three fists in person, I'm sure you would notice the subtle differences easily.
I'm sure you would FEEL the difference if hit by each of the three (particularly from an advanced practitioner) ... and I recommend you save the last version for the end - otherwise you may not be able to stand up for the others
That post should be added to the "horse stance" knowledge database, because that's most definitely one of the more lucid explanations I've read (Sifu Wong notwithstanding...)! Kudos sir.
I think my sifu uses "intent" and the above mentioned visualization to sort of aid the "charging up" process for beginners, since I've been a dead fish for quite some time now! After training zhan zhuang you could imagine the smell....
On a more serious note the "lifting heavy objects" visualization probably falls short when you try to do the shaolin cosmos qigong; lifting the sky being a pretty good example.
It is my belief that being able to be mentally/emotionally calm whilst under stance practice pressure will increase my ability to be mentally/emotionally calm under life's pressures
I couldn't agree more Marcus.
This thread has prompted a couple of questions for me.
1) If energy follows to where we place the mind (be it fist or dan tien or other place) does energy just flow freely when we think of nothing? Is this, then, the art of self manifested chi flow and stance training?
2) Since Sigung asserts that our enery can be transmitted beyond the limitation of our bodies, does this mean that when we think of nothing our energy flows everywhere (in all that there is) or MUST it be directed?
Excellent questions TommyC. I'm tempted to get deeply philosophical about how everything is inter-connected and that we are all One and what not, especially in regards to your second question. But seeing as how this would be conjecture on my part and not based on my own experience I shall leave your questions to my more experienced brothers and sisters to answer.
Watching with interest
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha
Interesting questions Tom...I look forward to seeing any answers (or attempts to answer )
I'm not sure I'm completely clear on the difference between no-thought and non-thought. Anyone care to clarify?
Many thanks
Rory
"The holistic training of Shaolin Kungfu with Chi Kung makes one physically fit, emotionally stable and mentally fresh: if one is not physically fit, one can hardly fight; if one is not emotionally stable, one cannot apply one's combat skills; if one is not mentally fresh, one cannot make split-second decisions." Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit (Sigung) - The Art of Shaolin Kungfu
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