The Shaolin Praying Mantis

[Luo Lang]

Ohhhh martin,
I haven't seen your post....well, very interesting indeed! Let me take some time to analyse

Ahm you are right: the most obvious advantage of this pattern is indeed to look very cool...

[Luo Lang]

Dear all,
Maybe you have a guess, how the Seven-Star Hook Hand (18) Wang Lang’s Praying Mantis, can be used?

happy finding out

[Luo Lang]

Dear all,
To give you some more motivation on this task to find out the applications:

Originally posted by Sifu:
It is interesting that the Praying Mantis Set I am going to teach in Switzerland provides many excellent counters against the chain punches shown in this Wing Choon video.

The following video is meant, showing Sifu Samuel Kwok performing Ip Man Wing Chun. That said, what is meant by Sifu's quote is that there are many excellent counters within Praying Mantis against the chain punches excellently shown in the video clip. It's in no way meant to beliitle the Masters performance, whom we respect upmostly. I think it's a good video to show chain punches executed very efficiently. The chain punches are a quite famous representation of Wing Chun Kung Fu.

That said, maybe during our work we may also find out later on which pattern are meant, but please don't focus on this specifically yet.

[Luo Lang]

Here we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDnm0YiNfcA

[Ninjagirl]

I studied seven stars praying mantis for a couple years, between the age of 15 to 17, it was pretty cool. I even had a chance to meet one of the big grandmasters from china. I think initially this really screwed up my concept of chi. The master seemed to think that powerful chi was having a really large lower dantein. The grandmaster spoke no english but he seemed proud to show off his large dantein.

[Luo Lang]

I think initially this really screwed up my concept of chi. The master seemed to think that powerful chi was having a really large lower dantein. The grandmaster spoke no english but he seemed proud to show off his large dantein

PM trained internally will generate and accumulate a lot of internal force. So, the lower, abdominal Dantien may be filled with a lot of Chi. basically that's a good sign and it's a sign that the Master trained internally. Normally such Masters are indeed very very powerful, much more than externally conditioned six pack Masters.

If the Grandmaster seemed to be proud of it, I can understand that. It's is very rare that he by himself was able to train a secretive Art. So again, his big Dantien seems to be a result of his internal training.

What I can say is that internal force training methods in PM was a prerogative only by great Masters. It sees that you were able to meet such ones!

[Ninjagirl]

It was a good experience. The Grandmaster did not speak English and at the time he was traveling abroad to visit his students, and to see how the art was progressing. His dantein was huge it inflated like a balloon, and he let each of the students put their hand on it to touch it. All I was taught back then was only a simple breathing exercise to breathe through the dantein. I later had to quit because my family moved.

[Luo Lang]

Dear Ninjagirl,
Nice that you enjoyed this experience. I think you have meet a great Master of Praying Mantis style who trained the Art internally. As it has been said many times: there are very few Masters of Praying Mantis in the Past and of course even more nowadays who have a knowledge about the Internal force training within this style. So you can cherish this experience!

[Luo Lang]

I shall continue with Seven Star Hook Hand,
For the time beeing, as not much video material is existing yet, especially Praying Mantis ones, we may use some other video clips of other courses to just have a slight imagination how the patterns can be used in application.

Of course we have to be aware that Eagle Claw and the Praying Mantis claw may be diffenerent. Also the stances may be used differently, furthermore also the tactics may be differently. Nevertheless the following clips are very well to have an imagination how the Mantis hook may be used:

Here are two clips of Sifu performing the Eagle claw, where you see clearly Sifu's approach to hook:
Sequence 21:Thiew Sau Sim Pou Ta - Hook Hand Dodge Step Strike

http://www.shaolin.org/video-clips-4/eagle-claw/eagle-claw03.html

Sequence 35: Thiew Ta - Hook Strike

http://www.shaolin.org/video-clips-4/eagle-claw/eagle-claw04.html

A good use of the principle of the hook hand is shown here:

http://www.shaolin.org/video-clips-4/eagle-claw/combat01.html

In the clip: Opponents Wards Off, at the end of the clip you see Sifu left hand too hook, grip!

[Luo Lang]

Hooks may often be used against middle and top strikes to hook the arm.

Often they are used in combination with kicks Sweeping legs or strikes at the same time...

Also kicks can be succesfully hooked:
The video clip Great Sage looks at Way shows some Monkeys playing around.

At the end of the clip I hook Nick's kick with a Reverse Hand Steals Peaches, but release it to continue the sequence.

http://www.shaolin.org/video-clips-3/shaolin/special-03/special19.html

[Luo Lang]

I sahll give another explanation according to our fundamental combat sequences:

Let us take combat sequence 5: after the first Fierce Tiger we make a small step back into False Leg and defend with Single Tiger, then followed by a Golden Dragon. Now instead of this Golden Dragon a Praying mantis practitioner may use his Mantis Claw to hook the arm at the wrist and following with a Sever Star Trust Punch.

The same would fit for example with Combat sequence 10, after the Black Tiger, there would follow a Drangon to open again the Way in termes of a thread. Now again instead of using the Dragon form one may use the mantis Claw to hook and grip and follow with a this time for example with a Seven Star Crush Fist. This Seven Star crush Fist may be applied with a lower attack of the opponets leg at the very same time.

happy training to all,

[Chiahua]

How similar is the mantis claw to the monkey paw? I was looking at some of the other monkey videos in that series, and the brushing leaves move seems like something a mantis claw could do. The mantis claw does not seem as soft though.

[drunken boxer]

How similar is the mantis claw to the monkey paw? I was looking at some of the other monkey videos in that series, and the brushing leaves move seems like something a mantis claw could do. The mantis claw does not seem as soft though.

I was wondering this too and also if the Mantis claw can be used to strike, ie with the back of the hand or wrist?
There are a number of similar handforms I've seen in other arts (for example Xingyi) being used to strike in this way, some where the hand is hooked and resembles... something between a Mantis Claw or Monkey Paw and a Crane hand form... really hard to explain but I've seen (and felt) the back of the hand knuckles or actually even wrist being used to strike for example the ribs here and it was very formidable.

[Luo Lang]

I was looking at some of the other monkey videos in that series, and the brushing leaves move seems like something a mantis claw could do. The mantis claw does not seem as soft though.

Dear Chia Hua,
I just can give you my two cents! The Monkey Paw is indeed very soft, almost using no force to have the most advantage. I have learnt this leasson at this course back then, an invaluable leasson, as I used to apply much too much force with it. the brushing away as sifu told me is not hard, often it's misunderstood. Actaully it's more like a droping in and contrilling than brushing away the arm.

So now just change the handform into Praying Mantis with the index Finger slighly dominant and here we go. I found wheater I use it as a Monkey Paw, or as a Praying Mantis claw the most advantagous it becomes if it's used soft.

Often the mantis approach doesn't seem to be soft. it think personnaly ther are two good reasong for it:
1.) Most practitioners lack of using Internal force and then with brutal strengh and lot's of mechanics it becomes hard
2.) The tactis and strategies of a PM practitioner may be different and therfor the more direct approach may appear harder.

But from what we believe this is quite paradox. Looking at Wang Lang's size it was unlickely that he used hard force against his classmates who had a advantage in body size and strengh. How should Wang Lang beat his Lohan classmates with hard force or strengh? I therefor think he had a quite soft internal approach.

I was wondering this too and also if the Mantis claw can be used to strike, ie with the back of the hand or wrist?

Dear drunken Boxer, yes one can strike with the knuckles of the back of the hand. Though this strike again is not easily done with strengh. Acually one would easily hurt himself doing so. It's done sucessfully with Internal force.

You can strike with it at any suitable target, but often the rips are attacked. You can strike the temple also in an upward side movement.

You can strike chin with an upward movement also.

But you can also use the index fingers to dot vitalpoints as well.

[Chiahua]

I was wondering this too and also if the Mantis claw can be used to strike, ie with the back of the hand or wrist?
There are a number of similar handforms I've seen in other arts (for example Xingyi) being used to strike in this way, some where the hand is hooked and resembles... something between a Mantis Claw or Monkey Paw and a Crane hand form... really hard to explain but I've seen (and felt) the back of the hand knuckles or actually even wrist being used to strike for example the ribs here and it was very formidable.

Right, there are videos where Sifu demonstrates Single Whip, and the hook hand is used as a strike (albeit a "secondary" strike, not the main one).