Headbutt is really effective

[drunken boxer]

Maxime,

I know where you are coming from, and I agree that insulting someone’s mother is a very low action. If someone insults someone’s mother and then gets punched in the face, I would have little sympathy for them.

However the fact is that if you were playing football and the other team or their manager knew they could get you sent off with an insult, any insult, then you will hear that insult. Of course if they also knew you had kungfu skills whether they would have the courage to do so is another matter!
A seasoned footballer would also want to lash out, but normally will have developed the control to wait and do it when the ref’s back is turned, or after the game in the tunnel etc.

I am 100% sure Marcello Lippi (Italy’s manager) will be secretly pleased with Materazzi’s action and the result. To look at it in a cold calculating manner (which Italian defenders are renowned for) Materazzi’s job is to stop Zidane playing football, and he did that effectively even if most people (including me) don’t like the manner he did it.

I totally disagree with FIFA and people who want to ban this stuff from the world cup. People say “we don’t want kids and their mothers watching this”. Funnily enough their own argument is the exact one I would use against them.
The fact is that grass roots, local league football is a nasty game. If a mother watches “nice” football on tv, she might think that she can send her son off to play this lovely game. But the reality is that when her son gets there, in real football he will be subjected to people insulting him, people trying to hit him when the ref isn’t looking, and people trying to break his legs and ankles even when the ref is looking. So I don’t think this information should be hidden from mothers.

Alternatively if FIFA want to clean up football they should clean up the grass roots football too, because at the minute people watch TV where almost any physical challenge receives a card, whereas in local football its almost impossible to get a red card even if you break someone’s leg.

[Michael Durkin]

I agree with you LeeWeiJoo, those are honourable ways to live by.

How many people are you going to headbutt as soon as someone calls you a name. Players will exploit this at every opportunity to get you angry, all they have to do is insult you. It would be like showing a red rag to a bull.

Initialy feeling angry at someone insulting your mother is natural. But through compassion and wisdom we can quickly realise that the insulter doesn't know your mother, in fact the insulter is the one who will be hurt most whether he knows it or not. Do good things and good things come back to you, do bad things and bad things come back to you.

Joyful in your own knowledge that your mother is all the wonderful things that she is, then no one can take that away from you, nor do you have to lower yourself to there level.

[Maxime]

Dear Adam, Chris, Paul, Lee Wei Joo, Anthony and Michael,

first of all thank you for taking the time to respond to my exuberance.

I just took a leisury walk downtown, meditating on the subject of insult, apologie, action and violence. Your beautiful posts have been extremely helpful.

Brother Lee Wei Joo: Your post really hit my dome, so to speak. Thank you so much. I totally agree with you. I am not going to quote any of your sentences because I have nothing to add to your beautiful words. Your Mother must be very happy to have a good son like you.

Maxime, I recognize that some insults are serious, but still, does that justify violence?

No. Violence is not justified.

There are very few things that a person can say to me that will elicit a violent response. Even if someone insulted my mother, I would walk away rather than fight. This doesn't mean I am a door mat. It means I've got better things to do than hurt a school boy who likes to insult people's mothers.

Totally agree. I was first amazed at your calmness and detachment (in comparison to my sensitivity and attachment to the subject which were extreme). But, words are only words. They only have the meaning that I am giving to them.

I think that most important is the way I listen to words; on the other hand, this does not mean that one can say any word like he wants to.

As long as our own 'temple' is free from physical agression, there is absolutely no need for violence. Besides, regarding self-defence when physically attacked, I wouldn't refer to the word violence anyway (but that's another subject).

How many people are you going to headbutt as soon as someone calls you a name. Players will exploit this at every opportunity to get you angry, all they have to do is insult you. It would be like showing a red rag to a bull.

Totally agree. At first I disagreed with you because I thought that 'as soon as someone calls you a name' didn't took into account the particularity of insulting one's mother. I just came to the realisation that, in fact, 'calling a name' goes for all names, including my mother's.

Initialy feeling angry at someone insulting your mother is natural. But through compassion and wisdom we can quickly realise that the insulter doesn't know your mother, in fact the insulter is the one who will be hurt most whether he knows it or not. Do good things and good things come back to you, do bad things and bad things come back to you.

Thank you.

As long as one's Love towards one's Mother is true, there is absolutely no need to justify it by violent means.

Joyful in your own knowledge that your mother is all the wonderful things that she is, then no one can take that away from you, nor do you have to lower yourself to there level.

So true.


Since I am more comfortable with my brothers, as I came accross knowing many of you better and better, I would like to share something delicate which may bring light (but no justification) on my sensitive behaviour in this thread.

The following is part of my heart, and I share it here because you are Family.

My beloved Mother passed away 8 years ago when I was in the army; her death was wrapped under tragical circumstances (which I don't feel like telling here brothers). I learned the hard way the popular saying 'it is once you lost someone you love that you really realise how much he/she was important to you'.

As I already mentionned earlier, being raised in a social context where not giving a straight answer to any insult would bring you into much trouble (making you the forever scapegoat and living punching ball), you would have no trouble in finding that insulting one's mother was the number one insult to be 'taken care of'.

More importantly, I have not been a good son. For years, I did not gave my Mother the presence she needed, and did not take care of her the way I should. I realised last year that this has been due to my selfishness and closed heart.

So, I guess developping an extreme sensitivity has been a way to 'justify, even lately' my care and love for my beloved Mother.

I have met an important blockage, which I am working on. You have helped me in many ways brothers. I would like to also thank my 'big street brother Eddy' (outside Wahnam 16 years long friendship and brotherhood) for his wisdom and experience.

I could never thank Sifu enough for the wonderful gift of Opening the Heart and Spiritual Awareness.

I keep on walking the path, I just left one stone behind the road...

Love to all,

Maxime, still cleansing...

[LeeWeiJoo]

Dear brother Maxime,

That was very touching. I now better understand why you took the stand the way you did. I am sure your Mother would be very proud of you, the way you have grown and progressed.

With Shaolin Salute,
Lee Wei Joo

[Maxime]

Progress with no retrogress

Dear Lee Wei Joo,

thank you for your kindness.

Dear Chris,

Nevertheless Chris, with sincerity, it saddens me that you did not get the feeling I was trying to convey.

Please accept my apologies, I shouldn't have written those words.


Dear All,

I was definitely wrong in my previous statements (Posts #38 and #40).

One of the greatest thing about this forum is the possibility of improving oneself.

It is said that "When a sinner realizes his wrong and returns to moral living, one would not exchange him for his weight in gold" (lang zi hui tou jin bu huan); it is also said that "The taller the bamboo grows, the lower it bows" (zhu zi chang de yue gao, wan de yue di). I humbly bow down in front of the wisdom of my brothers, and am happy for having realized the wrong path I was on.

To sum up some of Michael Sihing 's words, "Goodness begets goodness, evil begets evil" (shan you shan bao, e you e bao).

I think my previous behaviour highlights two important points: being aware of any emotional tension that may arise and disturb your perception, and the fundamental necessity of spiritual cultivation -developping compassion and wisdom for a successful and rewarding living with ourselves and others-.

While we train to live, we make our progress gradual. On the flipside of that coin, lies the pitfall of regression... hence the saying "Progress with no retrogress".

As a Shaolin disciple I am currently full of shame; I have not uphold the high standard of virtue, and have not set a good example by my thoughts, words and deeds in this thread.

Therefore, I present my sincere and deep apologies to my Sifu. I feel really sorry for my conduct and will work harder to make my Sifu (and my brothers and sisters) proud of me.

Please, forgive my lack of wisdom and compassion.

Off to correct practice and standing meditation,

Shaolin Salute,

Maxime

[Akemi]

Dear Maxime,

I want to thank you for your never-ending courage. You have always been honest and forthcoming on the forum, and because of you I have learned so much, and have and continue to be inspired by you.

Sincerely,

[Charles David]

Better and Better

Dear Maxime,

It is so very brave to be able to admit you have made a mistake. Like you I am still not perfect, though I am happily getting better and better.

With Respect,

[Mohammed]

Maxime mon frere je'suis desole pour votre mere, mais j'pense comme vous beacoup.

I understand fully all the points of view put forth here. I remember the old saying at school about sticks and stones but for me it was always the opposite. I was picked on before I "filled out" but physicall beatings never disturbed me as much as anyone talking about my mother or my family. That kind of stuff really hurt. I know that Zidane is Algerian and being an Arab from North Africa myself I know that Mothers and Women in general are held as sacred(contrary to what western press/media says about Arab treatment of women). One can accept any physical beating or personal insult, but a repeated(like Matarazzi's) insult about a mother especially if it concerns her moral behaviour or honour, then this is unbearable. If one watches the footage again one would notice that Zidane suffered his comments many times before finally not being able to take anymore.
With the benefit of our Shaolin training, we would be able to deal with these situations much better than both Zidane and Materazzi, however, I do feel that Fifa need to not only stamp out racism and diving etc, but also this kind of horrible sledging.



__________________________________

Bones: Are you playing chess Spock while our captain is being prosecuted?
Spock: Yes!
Bones : You're the coldest man I've ever seen!
Spock: Thank you!

[Luo Lang]

Please accept my apologies, I shouldn't have written those words.

Accepted
Ahhh, brother! You have shared more than compassionated things here. All the time.

As I said, thoughts are much worse than eveything. Let's all pray for a right thought.

I know that Zidane is Algerian and being an Arab from North Africa myself I know that Mothers and Women in general are held as sacred(contrary to what western press/media says about Arab treatment of women).

Every mother and woman is sacred. Forever.

What media says is relative.

You all know that Genuine Shaolin is not religeous. We are spiritual, actually we are all the same. just smile from the heart.

Now let's make our Past Masters beeing proud of us.

[cnholmes]

Dear Chris,

Please accept my apologies, I shouldn't have written those words.

Maxime,

Your mother would be very proud of you as a courageous and compassionate son. I am sorry to hear you lost her.

Your apology is accepted. Thank you for sharing your lesson with us.

Chris.

[Mohammed]

HI again everybody
Dear Siheng Roland, I agree with you 100% I was just saying that I can relate to Zidane's mindset at the time of the incident, though I do not condone his or Materazzi's actions.
I would like just briefly to explain another sporting incident which could have some lessons for us in the Wahnam family.
A few years ago Glen Mcgrath (an Australian fast bowler) started to sledge a West Indian batsman in an attempt to put him off his game (like Materazzi with Zidane)
However the West Indian batsman reversed the insult onto Glen Mcgrath's wife. A really emotional fisticuffs ensued and they were separated by the other players and the umpires. Later it was revealed that Mcgrath's wife was suffering from a disease. This extra "twist" turned a "normal" cricketing insult into an unbearable one for Mcgrath. But, the batsman did not know of the disease he was just returning an insult which is common amongst cricketers.
I think this incident reveals how quickly things can get out of hand. What appears to be a normal remark can be very hurtful to somebody else. It also shows that Mcgrath's original insult came back to hurt him so perhaps he shouldn't have started things. Also, it reveals that the current state of affairs in World sport. politics and morals has reached a stage where many things are accepted as "normal" which perhaps in the past would be considered bad manners or unacceptable.



______________________________

British Officer: But Ghandi, you Indians have no experience of ruling yourselves!

Ghandi: We would rather be ruled badly by one of our own, than be ruled very well by the British!

[Michael Durkin]

Do onto others as you would have them do unto you

I can never understand why we expect footballers to be pinnacles of virtue, or intelligence, or anything other than 'good at football', which is the single reason they're chosen to be there.

It also shows that Mcgrath's original insult came back to hurt him so perhaps he shouldn't have started things.

This shows that Chris's comment that sports persons aren't necessarily "pinnacles of virtue, or intelligence, or anything other than 'good at (insert sport)'", applies here also.

I'd like to raise the point of another saying: "Do onto others as you would have them do unto you". Had Mcgrath appreciated this wisdom, then he would have known how hurtful a comment about ones wife would have been.

To follow on from Chris's comments, in a hypothetical way. If Mcgrath was picked to play cricket because he displayed excellent virtue, I would expect a comment to his opposition to be something like "May you and your family be healthy and happy".

But most sports fans would laugh at such a "nice" comment. It isn't seen as being macho enough I guess. Nasty comments in sports start out as a bit of fun to taunt the opposition, but beneath the surface of these superficial comments, these taunts have hurtful repercussions whether those involved are aware of it or not.

[Nick Jones]

Maxime,

Thank You. Your humility and courage are inspiring. Please dont be too hard on yourself for it is in times such as this that we have the greatest opportunities for growth. I dont believe you made a mistake, rather that you have just made a step forward brother.

Peace,
Nick

[cnholmes]

A lot of people expect a hero to be a bit of a rogue, too. An' it was ever so.

So Mcgrath didn't think that he might himself be insulting someone who was ill. Theres the danger of insulting people - you don't know the full story.

Respect to all for the wise understanding here.

Chris.

[barrys]

Maxime,

Blessings on any lessons you may have learnt out of this situation. I find when I suddenly notice something about myself I hadn't seen before I am sometimes comforted and sometimes ashamed. And so the cycle can go on - I am now that. I do my best, and its sometimes not very good, to skip lightly away.

An old chap told me a story about a peace rally he went to ( I think during one of the crises in the Middle East). He said it was fantastic - christians, jews, muslims, hindus, humanists, agnostics, atheists all coming together to call for peace and understanding among all people. Later in the day there was a concert with many famous musicians from many traditions. Towards the end of the evening a famous scitar player came onto the stage. He settled himself and then played a few random notes. He sat for a minute or two and then started a piece but fnished after a few bars. Silence reigned for a few more minutes. Then more random notes. And so it went on. In the peace rally crowd there began to be a few mutterings about "lack of respect" etc. It still carried on. People began to get agitated, embarassed, angry etc. etc. etc. A couple of arguements broke out. I remember this old chap chuckling as he told the story but also looking a bit surprised as he said "You know even some of the buddhists walked out angrily, that really surprised me".

Peace can be a concept I think is a good idea people should bring to situations when they are having disputes with others. It can also be something I bring into my own life. I find the latter much harder to manifest consistently.

Metta,

Barry