a question about Wing Chun Kuen

[stonecrusher69]

It's sad to see how the original post that was only asking to find a Wing Chun school turned into a heated debate about the history of Wing Chun and wether it's better then Shaolin..

[Ronny]

It's sad to see how the original post that was only asking to find a Wing Chun school turned into a heated debate about the history of Wing Chun and wether it's better then Shaolin..

To say that Wing Chun is better than Shaolin is like saying American(-English) is better than English! Because Wing Chun IS a style of Shaolin and at the same time it is NOT a style of Shaolin. It depends on the Wing Chun linage and on how sever the decline of the linage was up to our time. Exactely the same can be said about most southern styles like Hung Ka, Li Ka, Liu Ka, Mok ka, Choy Ka, Fut ka, Southern Manits styles, Bak Mei Pai, Wuzu quan, Bai-he quan (White Crane), ... . All of them are Shaolin or Shaolin derived styles. But you don't see much of the real traditional Shaolin spirit (technical as well as spiritual) in most of todays kung fu schools.

Of course other people have other oppinions about the categorisation of "what is a real Shaolin style and what not".

[akiel]

my 5 cents on wing chun

as far as I can tell, the history of wing chun is a subject of debate as so much is tied up with legend (i know people here will know far more than me about it tho)
With respect to the comments about lineages, if you are looking into wing chun you will have noticed alot of fierce debates about which kineage is better etc... I would recommend you stay clear of these arguments. WC has lost alot of respect because of this infighting. When choosing your school its the same as any other MA find a school where you like the atmoshpere, the skills that are taught and you can respect the sifu as a mentor and a friend. Without any one of these you wont enjoy your class.
I will touch in the comments about the art, WC is a cut down version of shaolin (i think) and was developed to enable people to be trained a competent skill level quickly, it takes a bits from the various animmal forms. On top of this there is a scientific approach to posture, execution etc... Most schools dont seem to teach the internal side tho (which is a great pity) I have been training in WC for only 2 years but have found the need to add the internal training myself. As an introduction to kung fu its great with quick results but for long term developement keep as eye out for a shaolin school (I am now looking so if anyone knows of one in the luton area of the UK could you let me know please, many thanks

[Ronny]

The diffrent questionable names of Wing Chun from diffrent linages to differantiate from one another: Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, Ving Chung, Ving Tsun, Wing Tschun, Wing Tcun, Wing Tzun, Wing Tjun, Weng Chun...

All the "diffrent" names are questionable when we know that Wing Chun is based on Chinese characters and not letters. I just wonder why no branche uses the mandarin name "Yong Chun Chuan". (Because Wing Chun is from the cantonese spoken part, but nevertheless it would be a more "innovative" name than the others )

[stonecrusher69]

the reason so many schools use a differenet spelling of wing Chun is do to marketing. Some like Leung Ting uses the spelling wing tsun which he has copy righted so no one else can use it.

[Ray]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I wanted to resurrect this thread because I was able to do play "sticky hands" with a friend of mine who practiced wing chun for a bit for the first time. Something I've noticed running into the more combat oriented wing chun, tai chi, hsing yi, practitioners is that they tend to use "principles" over stances (since they don't think forms can be used for fighting and are only meant to teach principles) and thus their attacks seem like a really interesting mix of what they practice (like a type or way of punching or kicking) and what they come up with. This isn't to say that they can't be formidable, my friends have some pretty strong force but I notice that they have a tendency to both strike out and hit each other (in other words no defense and they take hits a lot). The way they fight is really different than the rootedness I get from one of my sihings. It's like one move from them and then maybe another and another, all which might hurt compared to one move from my Sihings in which the fight is pretty much over and they have defense covered at the same time.

^_^ Best,

Ray

[Daniel]

Good observations Ray,
I´ve the same opinion. But wing chun kungfu (which is a wonderful art) is debased today as the rest of kungfu, nowadays they often use a boxing style and thay scare their opponents with all these low kicks and continuous fast punches, and trying to grab your head to throw you and continue punching you on the ground without mercy.
Scary as it may seem it´s not so formidable if you can intercept them and use your stances and internal force,

Greetings,

[Ray]

Hello Daniel Sihing,
I thought about this further and I realize the biggest difference is our footwork is moving in stances while other schools that just use "principles" don't transition this way and because of this they tend to focus more on a powerful offense while not keeping a balanced defense when they do so. Not to say that they don't keep their hands up or protect their head and rib cage when they fight, but rather that they seem to not follow safety first so much when attacking. Kind of like not setting up a secure base before launching the army, so to speak.

Right now though being a total beginner (cat's claw anyone? ^^) I have no idea how to counter those weird snake punches and that low kick of his. Oh well ^^

[Grimlock]

Right now though being a total beginner (cat's claw anyone? ^^) I have no idea how to counter those weird snake punches and that low kick of his. Oh well ^^

Hi Ray,

You already gave the answer yourself: footwork and stances.

The first and most basic rule of countering is to avoid the strike! Safety first...

Even if you don't know actual patterns you can use to counter these attacks (although I'm pretty sure you know ones for the hand strikes), practicing avoiding them with your footwork and stances will help build your foundation of skills.

[akiel]

Best defence is not too get hit. Good footwork/stance help this enormously. If you practice with a wing chun guy regually then you will notice there arnt huge amount of different moves just how they are applied can vary enormously, there are about half dozen hand moves you will encounter all the time. witih regard to internal side of wing chun, my sifu only teaches a basic breathing exercise so i have had too add some from sifu wongs book art of kung fu, since then never looked back.
I would say wing chun has been condensed too much many sifus do not teach any internal aspect (apart from the forms but that would be for a more specialised posting) yet from experience this is just as vital as the external. A great pity really as WC as a system works when internal and external are used together.
Perhaps they will be reunited soon

Is there a shaolin wahnam school in the south east of england?

many thanks

[George]

Is there a shaolin wahnam school in the south east of england?

As far as I know, London is your closest option.


Best wishes,

[JIMMI555]

Wing Chun

seems like a good style at first look ,considering it was Bruce Lees style, but truth be told he had a great Master in YIP MAN, as far as now a days wing chun i dont know the quality that is out there, but back to the style i have had many sparing maches with wing chung practitioners ,my style is northern shaolin 5 animal style, i always had the edvantage when i fight with wing chun , they lack the footwork to continuesly change as the fight progresess,there movement is more front and back and they dont circle to the right and left thus always being left in a inferior possition, and when the gap closes and we touched hands i would tie them in a knot there sicky hands was not up to par ,honestly they were owed by my style, not even a contest every time i won with ease , wing chung is a womans style straight and direct, effective but not over powering or dominent style, and as the Great Thai Chi master TT Liang use to say southern style NO GOOD
Definetly not one of the elite styles of kung fu

[Andrew]

wing chung is a womans style straight and direct,

Sounds like a "challenge" to any Wing Chun practitioners

[JIMMI555]

just stating the facts

When Bruce Lee, wanted to test his wing chung abilitys he chalenged Wong Jack Man to a chalange match, for the first time he faced a Northern Saolin style, Bruce Lee was so discureged after that match that he silently went into seclution and started to study all styles trying to find the weknesess and strengths of as many styles as he could, before he started to develop his JET KUNE DO style, the major problem he faced fighting Wong Jack , was that he was alway put in inferior position because the northern style foot work was so superior to his , HE dorped wing chung , the style that he has been religiosly stydying for 11 years ,his philosophy was that he was hindered by the clasical mess, well that was in part true but the most important aspect of this match was the superior foot movment of the northern style he was facing
as far as a chalange goes, i have had matches with students of WILLIM CHUNG, he was YIP MANS senior student and Bruce Lees PERSONAL instructor, and i have had maches with students of YIP MANS sons, all lost to shaolin kempo , not even a contest every time i easily won never broke a sweat, there problem is ther foot work and the limited amout of set they have , ONLY 3 FORM SETS, MY STYLE HAS 35 , That i know of
im sure theres more
james

[Andrew]

If the number of sets were a measure of the combat efficiency of a style, Wushu would win hands down