Combat Kung Fu

[Chiahua]

Interesting vid, though some of the moves really look "light" or without root. The videos made me think of this guy's videos:

http://www.youtube.com/user/whatisyournameya

for comparison. There's the use of a tactic that looks like Wing Chun to me; I can't really articulate, but it's that tactic of almost "swatting" an oncoming punch out of the way and moving in quickly with an attack. A Wing Chun master called it "using his feelers"; the hands help to sense where a target is.
In Shaolin Wahnam that would be a "defence-cum-counter" strategy I think?

[Old-Liu]

"'Flow over force' is a very valid criticism, I believe. Similarly, it's like very fast trapping practice - is it worth hitting people lightly fifty times with all manner of complicated hand traps, when one solid shot would work just as well or better?"

Those of wing chun would say yes, lol.

It is always difficult to judge a school or a fighter about their fighting prowess without actually seeing them fight. I know that I for one fight much different in a point sparring match versus full contact versus mma settings. For me actually it is easier to be truer to my style in the full contact and mma settings, especially mma. Having to cut short at each technique creates problems. There is also the problem of the purpous of sparring. In point sparring the purpous is hit them and get away before they hit you, which is why you see the bouncing instead of solid stances. In full contact or mma, or the street for that matter, the purpous is to win, ie knock them out, make them tap, kill them lol, etc. Because of this, you dont worry about getting hit as much and you can stay deep in your stance and follow through on all of your strikes, joint locks, throws, etc.

These guys were going fast and they were hitting eachother but obviously not full force as noone was getting hurt or knocked out. I dug that they were trying to stay true to their style but i will say again, it is tough to do so if you cant complete your techniques. Haha, they were fun to watch though.

I've never done 'point' sparring, I'm afraid.

[ironrogue]

I've never done 'point' sparring, I'm afraid.

Have you ever done light sparring? Haha, that is pretty much it.

[Old-Liu]

Yes, but it's often the case that the 'rule set' you spar under affects or moulds the techniques you use. People natrually try to win, and one of the tactics of winning is to exploit the rule set. For example, MMA exploits the fact that you can't attack the groin, so it becomes worthwhile holding someone face to face in a clinch, when in reality, the first thing you would do is probably try to knee somone in the groin if they did that to you.

Meaning, if you do regular 'point' sparring, you can be left with an artificial sense of 'what would work' in reality. Naturally, you exploit the rules to do a number of light 'point scoring' shots - unfortunately, when you actually try to stop somone tough, you find that those shots don't stop them, and worse, they rock you with their return.

Which isn't to say don't do light sparring - light sparring is an excellent tool to develop further skill; it simply means make sure that everything you do is aimed towards realistc use, rather than simply 'winning' under that rules set.

San da or muay thai can be done at a light level - but it's always to improve skill. If you aren't contrasting that with contact sparring, you don't learn what is really useful and what isn't, in my experience.

[Old-Liu]

Here's someone who is used to doing points sparring fighting with somone who is used to more contact. The points sparring lad can get in, get his hand or foot to the target - but he can't do any damage once in there. The other lad then punishes him, because he's not used to being punished - and then he's overwhelmed by that. If he'd been punished all these years for for light attacks, he'd have adapted. A new rule set, a new mind set, presented him with a very different wake up call:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7mIgueDGCFU

[ironrogue]

old-liu. I agree 100%. When I faught down in vegas there were several guys used to point sparring and they got trashed down to the last one, haha. I personally dont think point sparring should be trained at all. However it is fun to play around every once in awhile. However I have never trained both at the same time so i cant say what that would yield. I used to train point back in my tkd and shaolin days but now i only do contact.

[Old-Liu]

Of course, as with all things, there's always something to humble us by being a most glaring exception to the rules we like to create - - Benny the Jet - he was a light contact, points fighter for years, and then transferred to full contact, becoming one of the classic, great kick boxers of all time!

But, for us lesser mortals, I do think we have to find a training way that will give us actual results - and a bit of contact is good in martial arts!

[Damian Kissey]

http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=677&highlight=Point+sparring

[Kung Fu fan]

As a personal, tactical insight, I don't like their open hand, close to the opponent guard - that's just asking for your fingers or hand to be grabbed or attacked, surely? I knew a very good JKD instructor who used to do things like elbow your guard hand, lol - I would think an open hand, very close to the opponent, fingers pointing towards him and just held there is an open invitation to have your fingers broken or grabbed. Or your arm.

As far as they can, you can too, so it's even.