Eagle Claw Master

[Marcus]

Hello everyone,

As promised here is more information from Sifu's reply to my request for further information.

JoseFreitas, this is the information I have on Sifu Yeong Khuen Chi.

Sifu Yeong Khuen Chi is Sifu's Sidai (younger brother), even though he is older chronologically than Sifu. He is Uncle Righteousness' nephew. Besides learning from Uncle Righteousness, he also learned from a few masters at the Chin Woo Association in Penang in the 1950s and 60s.

Sifu also said:

Sifu Zhuang Wenjun of Chin Woo Singapore, could be Sifu Yeong's sisook or sipak.

I will post more information Sifu gave me regarding the Chin Woo Association in the next few days.

Kindest regards

Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Marcus]

Hello you!

As promised here is more information on the Chin Woo Association. To save time I have quoted directly from Sifu's correspondence with me. In the next few days I will share with you what Sifu has to say on Eagle Claw Kung Fu and what Sifu plans to teach during Summer Camp 2009.

Chin Woo Association was the one founded by the great master Huo Yuan Jia, the one starred by Jet Li in the movie "Fearless". The philosphy of Huo Yuan Jia in founding Chin Woo was similar to ours in Shaolin Wahnam. He wanted to preserve the wonders and greatness of kungfu. He wanted his disciples to be scholar-warriors. Hence, Chin Woo paid much attention to moral development besides kungfu training. Besides teaching his own Tantui and Huojiaquan (Huo Family Kungfu), he invited masters of other styles, like Eagle Claw, Praying Mantis and Taijiquan, to teach in Chin Woo. These masters not only taught in the Chin Woo Headquaters in Shanghai, but also in branches like in Penang and Singapore.

One of the masters so invited by Huo Yuan Jia was the famous Eagle Claw grandmaster, Chen Zi Zheng. I think either Chen Zi Cheng or his successor, Lau Fatt Mang, visited Singapore and Penang to teach Eagle Claw. In Penang, the successor who inherited this Eagle Claw lineage was Kong Kai Yui, who later became the grandmaster of Chin Woo Penang. Sifu Kong Kai Yui was a well known Northern Shaolin master, and was a contemporary of Uncle Righteousness.

Sifu Kong Kai Yui was succeeded by Sifu Yeong Khuen Chi who taught in Chin Woo Penang. But later Sifu Yeong had some policy difference with a Praying Mantis grandmaster who also taught in Chin Woo Penang. Sifu Yeong therefore left the main Penang centre and set up Chin Woo Georgetown, Penang where he is till teaching.

See you soon,

Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Marcus]

Additional

Dear all,

Here is some more interesting information that Sifu shared with me regarding Eagle Claw:

It is worthy of note that the 50 Combat Sequences of Eagle Claw are considered the Encyclopedia of Eagle Claw Kungfu because they contain all the signature techniques of Eagle Claw. They are therefore secretly guarded and taught only to special disciples. Even when they are taught, often only the solo sequences are taught. The disciples had to make out the combat applications themselves. These solo sequences are linked into a set known as "Eagle Claw 50-Sequence Linked Fist". Like many other famous sets, the practitioners of their styles themselves may not know the combat applications; they merely perform the set as solo demonstration.

This is what Sifu had to say about him teaching Eagle Claw at Summer Camp 2009:

In the proposed Eagle Claw course I shall teach the combat application. Indeed, a main aim of my teaching other styles besides the ones we practice in Shaolin Wahnam is to preserve the combat applications of these other styles so that hopefully their own practitioners may be able to pick up the combat applications themselves. We have done this successfully with Tantui. I believe that of the thousands of people who practice Tantui, less than 5% know its combat application. Now we have the applications on video so that others may learn too. We could be even more successful with Eagle Claw.

Of course another main reason is to enable our students as well as our instructors to have an introduction to some of the great styles in kungfu or any martial arts.

Anyone who was lucky enough to attend the Tantui course with Sifu in 2007 will know that Sifu ALWAYS over delivers! 50 Combat Sequences in just 4 days! Get ready for some serious "Brain Fry" I think we're going to need some help.

Yesterday Sifu sent me two very old and rare photographs of Sifu Chen Zi Zheng and Sifu Kong Kai Yui, I shall post them in the next few days along with further details of the coming Eagle Claw course taught by Sifu.

Kindest regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Marcus]

As promised here are the two photographs Sifu sent me. Apologies that they are not of a higher resolution. The pictures are of Sifu Chen Zi Zheng (on the left) and Sifu Kong Kai Yui (on the right) that are kept in the Chin Woo Penang collection.

Sifu Chen Zi Zheng was nick-named the 'Eagle Claw King' during his time. He was the contemporary of Sifu Zhao Lian He, and both taught at the Chin Woo Headquarters in Shanghai. Sifu Zhao Lian He was the successor of Sifu Ku Ru Zhang, the famous Iron Palm grandmaster who killed a horse with a seemingly gentle pat.

Sifu Kong Kai Yui was the grandmaster of Chin Woo Penang in the 1950s and 1960s. I believe he learned Eagle Claw Kungfu from Sifu Chen Zi Zheng himself or from his disciple, Sifu Lau Fatt Mang.

Sifu Yeong Khuen Chi, who is about 70 years old now, learned Eagle Claw and Tantui from Sifu Kong Kai Yui about 50 years ago. It is quite amazing that through him we in Shaolin Wahnam have a rare opportunity to learn and preserve the exclusive 50 Sequences of Eagle Claw, considered by many as the "Encyclopedia of Eagle Claw Kungfu", traceable back to the Eagle Claw King.

Sifu also mentioned this:

If I am not mistaken, this set of 50 Sequences of Eagle Claw is no longer taught in Chin Woo. If it is still taught there, I believe only the external forms are taught, without the combat applications, which even in the past were reserved only for special disciples.

My heart beat quickens its pace when I think that Sifu will be teaching these 50 Sequences at Summer Camp 2009 - sequences traceable back to the Eagle Claw King himself! How lucky are we

I will post further details about the Eagle Claw Kung Fu course at Summer Camp 2009 once I have confirmed the dates etc.

Until then...Stay excited!

Kindest regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Marcus]

It gives me great delight to announce the date of the Eagle Claw Kung Fu course with Sifu at UK Summer Camp 2009.

Tuesday 14th July - Eagle Claw
Wednesday 15th July - Eagle Claw
Thursday 16th July - Eagle Claw
Friday 17th July - Eagle Claw

Sifu had this to say:

Those who wish to attend this Eagle Claw course must have reached at least Level Two in our Shaolin or Taijiquan programme to be sufficiently prepared to take this course where 50 combat sequences will be taught.

Non-Shaolin Wahnam members must have at least 3 years of kungfu experience. If there are more people than the limited number of places, preference will be given to Shaolin Wahnam members. Amongst Shaolin Wahnam members, preference will be given to instructors, followed by a first-come-first-serve basis.

To help prospective participants, I intend to post videos of the 50 sequences in solo performance so that they can learn the combat aspect more easily at the course.

LOL! 50 Sequences! I can't wait

In the next few days I'll post venue and price details (as soon as I've got them).

And please feel free to post on this thread, though I can't guarantee to be able to answer any questions

Kindest regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Jeroen]

How absolutely wonderful.
UK summercamp is getting an increasingly awesome trackrecord of great courses.

Starts smiling thinking back about the "brain frying" of the Crossroads course

[JasD]

Wow 50 combat sequences, this would be a dream for eagle claw practitioners who want to apply their forms. I'd be especially interested to see what kind of specialised force training Sifu does for eagle claws.

Jas

[WongYing]

Just to clarify a couple of points.

"Sifu Kong Kai Yui was the grandmaster of Chin Woo Penang in the 1950s and 1960s. I believe he learned Eagle Claw Kungfu from Sifu Chen Zi Zheng himself or from his disciple, Sifu Lau Fat Mang"

"the successor who inherited this Eagle Claw lineage was Kong Kai Yui, who later became the grandmaster of Chin Woo Penang"

The only successor/inheritor to be considerd successors/inheritors are generally know as the The Zhueng Mun Yan or standard bearers of the system. Of course many people can be considered teachers or practioners of a style without being a successor/inheritor

Lau Fat Mang was not Chen Tzi Chings disciple, ChenTzi Ching was Lau Fat Mangs SiFu's class mate. Lau Fat Mangs SiFu was his uncle Lau Kai Men

The 50 rows of eagle claw is still taught completly with all the correct applications and knowledge within many of the eagle claw families

Some of the comments here would imply that the 50 rows taught under a number of the eagle claw families is taught without the application knowledge, this is not true.

Lasty when quoting the 50 rows as the encyclopedia of eagle claw, it is only one chapter of 3 if you like it to a book. To fully understand the essence of the eagle claw system one requires all 3 chapters. They are:

Hun Keun Sup Loh - 10 Roads of eagle claw
Lin Keun Ng Sup Low - 50 Rows connecting/linking fist
Yat Ling Bhat Cum La Sau - two person 108 locking form

If you only have 1 part, the system is lacking

Whilst is a positive to promote chinese martial arts, to imply or suggest that many of the practioners of eagle claw know only the forms and external knowledge, how many eagle claw teachers have been approached to qualify such an arrogant statement.

[Marcus]

Dear WongYing,

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum and to thank you for your contribution to this thread. I accept that my own knowledge and direct experience of Eagle Claw could fill the back of a postage stamp, but Sifu's depth of knowledge and experience is a different matter entirely.

Through discussions with Sifu and my more experienced and wise Wahnam brothers and sisters it is clear to me that probably as high as 70 percent of those who practice Kung Fu (including Eagle Claw Kung Fu) do not know the combat applications of the forms they practice.

Worse, from both my limited personal experience and having watched a lot of sparring I would estimate that more than 90 percent of Kung Fu practitioners cannot apply their Kung Fu forms in free sparring.

WongYing I feel so happy for you. If the Eagle Claw Kung Fu you practice has been lucky enough to avoid the decline prevalent in so many other Kung Fu schools - where students have to resort to techniques from other arts to spar and only the 'external' is taught- then you are indeed very lucky.

That is why I (and every other Shaolin Wahnam Kung Fu and Wahnam Taijiquan student) feel so lucky. Sifu has always advocated that we apply the Kung Fu forms we learn in solo practice in free sparring. This was not the case in other schools I practiced with.

And just for the record, I’m the first to admit that I am one of Sifu’s poorest students when it comes to combat, but I can use the forms I’ve been taught. And that’s the point I’m making. Not that I’m the greatest fighter on planet earth. So no challenges okay guys. It’s Christmas - a time for peace on earth and good will to all men.

Further research shows me that Sifu Leung Shum and Sifu Lily Lau are two of the few masters who demonstrate Eagle Claw applications publicly.

Sifu will be showing the 50 Sequences of Eagle Claw Kung Fu in videos to help students planning to attend his course at Summer Camp 2009 prepare themselves.

I assure you that no 'arrogance' is intended Wongying and I look forward to any further information you may be so kind to share here. I also hope that other Eagle Claw practitioners, especially Masters my enlighten us on the combat applications of these sequences. Though if for any reason they prefer not to share such knowledge I totally understand.

Merry Christmas everybody.

Kindest regards

Marcus

Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Marcus]

Dear all,

I hope you are enjoying the festive fun and looking forward to the New Year's celebrations.

I will be making a full announcement regarding Summer Camp 2009 in the announcements section of the forum shortly. But I wanted to give viewers of this thread a head start. Especially as it relates directly to the unique Eagle Claw course Sifu will be teaching.

DATES: Tuesday 14th July - Friday 17th July ( 24 hours of tuition over 4 days )

COST: £1 500 GBP. Note: 65% discount for Shaolin Wahnam Institute (SWI) students (brings cost down to £525)

QUALIFICATIONS: SWI students must be at least Level 2 (in Shaolin or Taijiquan programme) to be able to benefit from the intensive nature of this course.
Non SWI attendees must have at least 3 years Kung Fu experience.

NUMBERS: Due to the amount of material covered on this ground breaking new course there will only be 30 places available.
Because interest for this course will be high - preference will be given to SWI members. Amongst SWI members preference will be given to SWI instructors. Other places are available on a first come first served basis.

IMPORTANT NEWS
I have received the first video clip of Sifu performing Eagle Claw sequence 1 and will post it here in the next few days. Keep watching!

Kindest regards

Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Jordan]

Dear all,

I hope you are enjoying the festive fun and looking forward to the New Year's celebrations.

I will be making a full announcement regarding Summer Camp 2009 in the announcements section of the forum shortly. But I wanted to give viewers of this thread a head start. Especially as it relates directly to the unique Eagle Claw course Sifu will be teaching.

DATES: Tuesday 14th July - Friday 17th July ( 24 hours of tuition over 4 days )

COST: £1 500 GBP. Note: 65% discount for Shaolin Wahnam Institute (SWI) students (brings cost down to £525)

QUALIFICATIONS: SWI students must be at least Level 2 (in Shaolin or Taijiquan programme) to be able to benefit from the intensive nature of this course.
Non SWI attendees must have at least 3 years Kung Fu experience.

NUMBERS: Due to the amount of material covered on this ground breaking new course there will only be 30 places available.
Because interest for this course will be high - preference will be given to SWI members. Amongst SWI members preference will be given to SWI instructors. Other places are available on a first come first served basis.

IMPORTANT NEWS
I have received the first video clip of Sifu performing Eagle Claw sequence 1 and will post it here in the next few days. Keep watching!

Kindest regards

Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

Hey folks,

I know I am pointing out something rather
obvious here, but... by *just* attaining
Level 2 in either the Shaolin or Taijiquan
syllabus, you can save a massive £975 off
this upcoming Eagle Claw course with Sifu.

I mean...

You could be an absolute beginner, but if
you start your training NOW, you could very
easily qualify for the 65% discount by the
time this course starts.

This is certainly worth thinking about if
you are wanting to learn Eagle Claw from
Sifu, and have yet to sample our Shaolin
or Taijiquan... AND want to save a bunch
of money!

I see that Sifu Marcus is offering Shaolin
kung fu in London, starting on January 8th
and you can learn more about it
-> right here <- on the forum.

I also see that Sifu Robin and Barry are offering
Taijiquan, again in London, which you can learn
about -> here <-

And I know there are many more classes
available in other locations, just check
out your local Instructors web sites and
posts here on the forum.

What a great way to start your New Year

Have fun!

[Marcus]

Dear All,

As promised here is the link to the first video made available by Sifu. Showing combat sequence 1 - Press Strike. You can find it here: https://www.shaolinsummercamp.co.uk/...eagleclaw1.m4v

After watching it, see if you can answer these two questions:

1. What similarities can you see between the patterns of this Eagle Claw first combat sequence and the style of kungfu we practice in Shaolin Wahnam.
2. Why is this first sequence important in Eagle Claw Kung Fu?

I will release some combat applications of this Sequence 1 in a few days.

Enjoy!

Kindest regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[WongYing]

Lin Kune Ng Sup lho

The names of each row from 1-10 in cantonese are :
1 - Nga Da
2 - Tiu Da
3 - Bung Da
4 - War Da
5 - Coi Ma Saam Kune
6 - Faan Kune
7 - Sat Yeut Jeung
8 - Lin Wan Jeung
9 - Chin Jong Dun Da
10 - Go Til Dai Da

Based on Phonetic pronunciation

[Marcus]

WongYing - I would like to sincerely welcome you back to the thread and thank you for providing the Cantonese names for the first 10 rows.

Wahnam students may be interested to know that what WongYing calls 'rows' we call 'sequences', which is translated from the Chinese (Cantonese) term 'lou' - which literally means 'roads'.

Sifu kindly provided me with the following transliteration of the 10 sequences in Cantonese:

1. Ngat Ta
2. Thiew Ta
3. Pang Ta
4. Whar Thiew
5. Khoi Ma Sam Khuen
6. Fan Khuen
7. Cham Yew Cheong
8. Phai Pou Harng
9. Chuin Wan Cheong
10. Chin Chang Thun Ta

Our English equivalent is:

1. Press-Strike
2. Lift-Strike
3. Side Punch
4. Draw-Lift
5. Slant Horse Three Fists
6. Hanging Fist
7. Chop-Waist Palm
8. Side Step
9. Turn-Return Palms
10. Press Elbow Continuous Strike

You will notice that WongYing's list on Chinese (Cantonese) terms are similar, except that we use different systems of transliteration.

For example: WongYing uses 'Nga Da' and 'Tiu Da' whereas we use 'Ngat Ta' and 'Thiew Ta'. We prefer 'Ta' and 'Thiew' to 'Da' and 'Tiu' because we feel they better represent the Cantonese sounds in English spelling.

This is of course just a personal preference and WongYing and others may very well have different preferences - which is fine by the way

Sifu also pointed out to me that there are two notable differences (as anyone who knows me knows my Cantonese is worse than poor) between our list and WongYings:

Item 8 in our list is 'Phai Pou Harng' (side step), where as in WongYing's list it is 'Lin Wan Jeung', which we would interpret as 'Continuous Palms' and which might be our 'Chuin Wan Cheong' (Turn-Return Palms) in Item 9.

WongYing's Item 9, 'Chin Jong Dun Da' is probably our Item 10: 'Chin Chang Thun Ta' (Press Elbow Continuous Strike), and WongYings Item 10: 'Go Til Dai Da' could be our Item 11, 'Khor Thiew Thai Ngat' (High Lift Low Press).

I'd like to thank Sifu for sharing this information with us and I hope WongYing will continue to post on this thread. Especially in relation to question 2 (Why is this first sequence important in Eagle Claw Kung Fu?) in my previous post.

I will be back on line later this evening to see if any Wahnam students have made any suggestions (come on don't be shy) and provide a link to the first Combat Application of Press-Strike (Opponent Attacks on Left).

Until then

Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[WongYing]

Da and Tit can be both used to mean hit i.e Tit Tar Jow or Dit Da Jow -
It really is the same thing just symantics, and regional colloquial dialect. Yours could have more of a Malaysian inflection on tone.

I must also say that the sequence shown in the video carries a rather unique flavour I have not seen on the open stance by any another practitioner of eagle claw either in the west or far east. It is more akin to southern style than northern style.

The routine is called Lin Kuen Ng Sup Lou - 50 Roads/rows connecting/linking fist

Road Row again symantics, but sequences is not correct

"Item 8 in our list is 'Phai Pou Harng' (side step), where as in WongYing's list it is 'Lin Wan Jeung', which we would interpret as 'Continuous Palms' and which might be our 'Chuin Wan Cheong' (Turn-Return Palms) in Item 9."

8 - Bai Bo Hun - Bai Bo does not mean side step it means open - As in Bai Kou Open and close. In this instance it means to step around not to the side

Seem Bo is more accurate for side step

Chuin again is not corect for the palm sequence as Chuin is more akin to inch or short power. I think what you are trying to say Jeun not Chuin

Lin Wan Jeung is another way of refering to the palm sequence but Jeun Wan Jeung is also correct

"WongYings Item 10: 'Go Til Dai Da' could be our Item 11, 'Khor Thiew Thai Ngat' (High Lift Low Press)."

My mistake Go Tiu Dai Da is correct as Road/Row 11

"Ngat" The Ti is a silent T and not a hard T in western tone - So Nga with rising tone and cut short at the end without the harsh "T'" sound.

Again, as I stated earlier the words used here are based on Phoentics sounds so neither are more accurate than the other.