CFQ - The Facts

[Antonius]

I'd like to add that I sympatise with Divineshadow and others who, if I read them correctly, are somewhat surprised by the strong stance we are taking against CFQ.

First of all, please understand that we don't make decisions like this lightly. We waited over 2 years before we took a stance. Although some of the facts may still be fuzzy, we have more than enough evidence to be sure of our stance.

Secondly, don't confuse compassion with defenselessness. We in Shaolin Wahnam aspire to be Scholar Warriors. We practice compassion, but we also practice courage. In particular, we are not afraid to stand firmly against what we feel to be an injustice.

If someone attacks us, we defend. We do so with compassion, but defending oneself with compassion, both verbally and physically, does not mean you don't hit back. We "evaded" these attacks for a long time, but now we have no choice but to hit back. Of course, even in hitting back, we still practice compassion.

I hope you can see that all of the Shaolin Wahnam instructors are courteous and respectful even when taking a strong stance.

[cnholmes]

I hope you can see that all of the Shaolin Wahnam instructors are courteous and respectful even when taking a strong stance.

I can see that clearly, and I really do consider it a useful lesson. It shows great strength of spirit to remain calm but steadfast under duress.

Thank you for setting this example.

Chris.

[Piers]

I agree with Chris. Yes, I was initially surprised by reading about this business, and surprised that there was any criticism of any other system, as that is generally so alien to the spirit of this forum and of Shaolin Wahnam. But it seems completely justifiable, and the courteous and open way our instructors have talked about these things seems entirely honourable.

And in fact this whole business just reminds me how sound the foundations of our school are - just because we don't need to spend our time running down other schools but in fact we welcome their input and focus on where we share similarities and approaches.

I love the fact that our Sifu takes a basic stance of openness - for example, on the intellectual level of saying that all religions at the higher levels point to the same reality. That approach, as oppposed to an exclusive approach that takes care to point out where other people are wrong and where we are right, gives me great confidence in our school. I appreciate the great care that is taken not to offend people or attack them personally, and I appreciate the way Sifu often prefaces certain remarks by explaining that this is just his opinion and other people have other ones.

In fact the willingness to be open and welcoming to other approaches demonstrates that we stand on solid ground - we are confident in what we have, so we don't need to be defensive and critical.

I do think it's completely fair for Anthony and Joan and other to point out in detail what's been happening. Thank you for the way in which you've done it.

[Luo Lang]

Dear brothery and sisters,
Last year in 2004 I attended a Intesive course with Sifu in Malaysia. After the course I decided to meet Sifu Yap in Penang, cause of my deep interesst in treating people. This because Sifu spoke with deep respect about Sifu Yap as a great Chi Kung healing Master.
My girlfriend and I went to Sifu Yap for two treatments. Sifu Yap welcomed us in a very friendly and respecfully manner. Me myself took the chance also to talk to Sifu Yap and about his views and about CFQ. But to say I was not looking for another system, which I could involve, I always knew that I have found my Master and the way, the way of the Shaolin. I was simply interessted in what a Chi Kung Master is doing. The sessions were amazing, but in no way to compare to my training.
When we went to the first session, I got to know Simon, a student of Sifu Yap. He was friendly and respectful. So we decided to meet eachother after the second session for a dinner in Penang. He came up with a Chinese guy, which was Jin Leng.
During the disscusion I realised that when we were talking about Chi they insisted on the fact, that the most important to do is letting the Chi Flow. As I was quite knew in Martial arts this became quite paradox to me, as I was told to do stance training. But this I kept for myself, because something inside of mine said to me: Roland, how disrespectful can you be towards Past Masters, who trained that over decades.
Anyway, out of the disscussion I clearly felt that they insisted that storing is bad for the body.
What made me rally curious was the behavior of Jin Leng. I could really feel that he was really frustrated and full of anger towards Shaolin Wahnam in particular towards Sifu. He told me some things which were really not nice. One thing was that Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung was not working, the other in which way he was complaining about Sifu's fees. Something he told was shocking me extremely. Something what takes all your believe. I mean he told something which should take away all my hope and courage to follow the way of Shaolin Wahnam. This was also a direct attack towards Sifu.
When we went for the second treatment, as my girlfriend was getting her treatment with Sifu Yap, I got to know another Master, I think his name is Sifu Ho. He told me an interessting story. Sifu Yap also practiced Martial Arts. He told me that Sifu Yap got so powerful but could not control it anymore. He could even smash a door. He told me that this overloaded power leaded to Sifu Yap's hairlost. Sifu Ho then helped Sifu Yap. How he did not tell. Anyway out of this story it started to realise why they avoid the building.

With warmest regards,

Roland

[grammatoncleric]

Dear Si Gu Ma Joan and Sipak Anthony,

thank you for this thread, it is a shame that this is happening.

[Cymon]

Sigung has accepted my apology.

I thought some of you would be happy to know that Sigung wrote to me today and accepted my apology. The following is his message;

We in Shaolin Wahnam are very happy you are back with us.
Dear Cymon,

I have just read your post on “My own experience of CFQ”. It is a great post. I am sure not only it will enable many people to better understand our relationship with CFQ, it has also touched their heart.

Your apology is accepted. I look forward to train you and to help you attain the wonderful benefits of our Shaolin arts.

If you wish, you can post my e-mail on the same thread of your post to signal that we in Shaolin Wahnam are very happy you are back with us.

Best regards.
Sigung.

I cant iterate how much this means to me with mere words, so I will let my conduct and example display this instead, by being the best student I can be.

I am so happy, I think my heart is having a fit.

I need to focus my shen, this is apparent in my previous post. I became very emotional whilst writing and some of the grammar and spelling go astray and the post is not simple and direct either.
I shall summarise the post so it is easier to read and understand in the next few days or so.
First off I must collect and focus myself to be able to do this properly.

Thanks and Salutation to Sigung, Sifu and all members of Shaolin Wahnam.

Love and respect,

Cymon

[Tapio Raevaara]

Dear Siheng Cymon,

I don't know you, but my heart filled with joy when reading that. I wish you the very best in your (our) journey!

Best regards,
Tapio

[Maxime]

Dear Seniors, dear classmates,

I am a new student of Shaolin Wahnam. Nevertheless, I can’t help but adding a few words. If my seniors believe that I am too arrogant (I certainly dare not), please feel free to suppress my post.

I am very sad and unhappy about this situation. I don’t understand the behaviour of Wahnam students who are now badmouthing Sifu, discrediting our wonderful Shaolin arts, and the entire Family.

I also find quite ‘bizarre’ the CFQ connection in the changing of such traitors. I don’t want to raise feud, but I fully understand the strong stance taken by my seniors. Forgive my impetuosity, but I think it should be interesting to have an explanation from Sifu Yap.

Sifu has done nothing wrong. He has always been generous and kind. And for those complaining about the fees (which they did'nt paid ...) he teaches an incredible art for nothing (whatever may be the student’s financial situation, it still will be nothing). I am a manual worker, I work hard everyday for a low salary, and if I would have to pay double for another day with Sifu, I certainly would do it. I have already given some accounts on my personal experience and progress, training under Sifu’s teachings. Simply put, Sifu saved my life and shed light on what was a dark road for me. I am sure that for most students, they know what I mean. I am sure that the people mentioned now badmouthing know what I mean. I am REALLY unhappy; I hate hearing stories of people biting the hand that feeds them. I don’t like ungrateful people.

Anyway, my seniors have expressed their positions and feelings in a better way than mine. I just wanted to give my strong support to my Family, I hope I have not been too rude in doing so.

We should not be discouraged by such betrayal. Adversity is helpful, it makes us stronger and wiser. It is time to let our Sifu know that all he has done is immensely appreciated.

Thus I would like to dedicate this poem of mine to our beloved Sifu, as a small token of my eternal gratefulness for his kindness and generosity.



Wandering in the realms of hell
Searching for a star in the sky
Suddenly happy tears running down a big bell
The soundless call of Shaolin makes me cry.

The Great Masters are carrying the moon
Their empty palms pushing mountain
Passing down a priceless art from dawn to noon
Loving their students like their own children

A peaceful Heart shines light, even blind eyes can see
Unreal shadows bringing joy now and here
I bow down in front of the Shaolin monastery
The divine ancestors released our minds from fear

Heroes of the past paved the way with their blood
Disciples on the road offer a thought of eternal gratefulness
Even if the old monks had to beat you with a rod
From their merciful hands flowed the art of kindness

Now beautiful trees are blossoming under Heaven
Because Men of the past nurtured the Earth
To the Original Face the world will return
In a state of pure tranquillity and calmness with no death or birth

Dedicated to my beloved master, Sifu Wong Kiew Kit


Maxime,

France.

[Joan]

review

Shaolin Greetings,

I wish to sincerely thank everybody who has told their story or contributed to the thread in any way so far. My heartfelt appreciation to you all.

I would like to reiterate Anthony’s words that we don’t make decisions like this lightly. We have waited over 2 years and as events with CFQ continue we feel that it is necessary to make this stand.

I have summerised the issues, to make it easier for everybody.

These are the issues with CFQ

 Belittling and bad mouthing Sifu Wong and his teachings.
 An inability or confusion over practising Shaolin Chi Kung/Kungfu, and an undermining of confidence after sessions with Sifu Yap.
 Jin Leng

The belittling and bad mouthing of Sifu Wong, Shaolin Chi Kung and indirectly Shaolin Kungfu.

Joan’s (my own) experience:

Both Sharon and Finbar were singing from the same hymn sheet.
 Shaolin Chi Kung is not as powerful as CFQ.
 Shaolin Chi Kung doesn’t allow the person to ‘let go’.
 Shaolin Chi Kung is not meditation.
 CFQ deals more with the spirit of the person.
 Shaolin Chi Kung does not clear karma.

Darryl’s experience:

What I found surprised me greatly, in that several (Ronan, Marcus, Mike and myself) of the UK instructors have had CFQ students (in particular Jin Leng and Chris Jones) badmouthing Sifu Wong (and the Arts that he teaches) to them. When I started asking the overseas instructors, I found that others had had the same situation, either with their students coming back either confused or misinformed (Joan and Kai), or with themselves having been subjected to badmouthing and insinuation (Anthony and Eugene). At this point, I stopped believing it to be casual coincidence.

Anthony’s experience:
Sifu Yap did not specifically badmouth Sifu Wong or Shaolin Wahnam to my face, and it is not my intention to badmouth him here. But his tacit disapproval of Shaolin Wahnam became clear. Sifu Yap freely offered controversial opinions that conflicted heavily with Shaolin Wahnam. In retrospect, I think it was inappropriate to do this to disciples (Darryl was there too) of another master -- especially when we consider that Sifu Wong was one of Sifu Yap's mentors

Andrew’s experience of emails from Jin Leng:
I was told in no uncertain terms that Sifu is a charlatan and that his Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung was a very low level system. In fact they even mentioned that Sifu was just a good salesman and had nothing to back up anything he claimed -- neither with his Kung Fu nor his Chi Kung.



Students not wishing to practice Shaolin Chi Kung/Shaolin kungfu again after meeting with Sifu Yap and a severe undermining of confidence.

Joan’s (my own) experience with students:

Both Sharon and Finbar left Shaolin Wahnam Ireland despite having had great benefits from their Shaolin Chi Kung practice. Finbar admitting that he had already ‘forgotten’ all about me!

Anthony’s personal experience:
For the next few months, I underwent a profound loss of confidence in my qigong and kungfu practice, not unlike what Joan described above. The conversations with Sifu Yap rang through my mind: "Kungfu attracts the karma of violence," and "Internal force is not conducive to health." Because of this loss of confidence, my practice suffered greatly and I actually developed more blockages while failing to clear the old ones.

As the situation got worse, I even considered visiting Sifu Yap because I mistakenly felt that he was the only one who could help. In truth, Sifu Yap's treatments hurt more than they helped. Although they brought me temporary relief from the pain, they had the side-effect of taking away my ability to heal myself using Shaolin Qigong. It was as if my "powers" were taken from me and I was suddenly dependant not on myself as I had been for years, but on Sifu Yap and CFQ.

What I found most disturbing at the time was that Sifu Yap did not offer any kind words about Sifu Wong. I found this strange considering all of the kind words Sifu Wong and his students had for Sifu Yap. It was also strange considering how happy and peaceful Sifu Yap appeared to be.


Cymon’s personal experience:
During my whole experience I wore my Shaolin Wahnam attire and displayed this to all present, and also made it clear to everyone involved, including Sifu Yap that I had no intentions to stop my Shaolin Wahnam training and practice. No one had any problems with this. I was told that my wishes and standpoint was fully respected. However it was explained during the courses at several points, only when people asked about it, that Kung Fu does indeed generate bad karma. I had great difficulty accepting this and reiterated that I was not going to stop as I was not convinced of this concept.

Once back in London I decide that in order to evaluate and gain the best benefits of CFQ I should practice it solely for a period and postpone my Shaolin Wahnam training for a while. My reasoning for this was one of a dualistic nature, in that considering the main aim of CFQ is to remove the layers of Karma and not to build or store, (which is at the time how I limitedly looked upon my Kung Fu training) that to my mind they were incompatible. I was at this point displaying an example of logical reasoning over wisdom and experience. Wisdom and experience I fully admit to having very little of.
So I practiced and studied the CFQ for about two months I think, but I really missed my previous training and when I met up with my Sifu, Sihing and Sidais it hit me how far I had confused and messed myself up in the head not to mention how far I had fallen behind. They had just come back from Malaysia however. I think the old sayin ‘ jack of all trades, master of none’ might have applied to me.


Jin Leng.

Anthony’s experience:

I was friends with Jin Leng for a while. He was once an active member of this forum. But there was something very different about him in 2003. This was not the kind, compassionate Buddhist I had come to know. Instead, he was full of bitterness and venom -- particularly towards Sifu Wong.

Jin Leng would often join me or take me out to meals (he had a car) during the course in 2003. Gradually, he began to talk more and more about Sifu Wong. He complained, mostly. He spit a lot of venom. For some reason, he was especially angry towards Sifu Wong's fees even though he had never paid them himself.


I later found out that Jin Leng was working for Sifu Yap, although I'm not sure exactly when this started. I know that Jin Leng quit working for Sifu Wong's publishing company the same week that he took me to see Sifu Yap. I'm not saying that Sifu Yap encouraged Jin Leng's behavior. I don't really know. But Jin Leng's behavior was certainly unethical.

Jin Leng continued like this for a while. He would visit Sifu Wong's intensive courses, take students out for meals, and once he had their confidence, he would tell them how foolish they were to spend so much money when Sifu Yap was better and cheaper. And then he would take them to see Sifu Yap.


Sifu Wong taught Jin Leng for free and helped him to cure an impossible illness, and as thanks Jin Leng now spits on Shaolin Wahnam. He even tells people that Shaolin Cosmos Qigong doesn't work, ignoring the fact that it worked for his own illness!


Andrew’s experience:

Although I have not met Sifu Yap personally I knew Jin Leng very well .... I thought. I truly considered him a close friend and he helped me through some quite difficult times. But this was before 2003.

I remember very well during the course that Jin Leng was complaining of sleeping problems --- a sort of insomnia. I opened a couple of energy points for him during the evening (using a method I learned from Sifu) and he slept like a baby that night. He slept so well that he actually missed lunch the following day!

Soon after my departure from that course we started a quite emotional email exchange. During this I was introduced by Jin Leng to another of Sifu's ex-students in Malaysia -- at least that was the claim (I cannot confirm either way).

The email exchange, looking at it now, was aimed at undermining any confidence I had ever had in Shaolin Wahnam and Sifu Wong. I was told in no uncertain terms that Sifu is a charlatan and that his Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung was a very low level system. In fact they even mentioned that Sifu was just a good salesman and had nothing to back up anything he claimed -- neither with his Kung Fu nor his Chi Kung.
All of this pushed me further and further down in my development and training. In fact my personal training hit an all time low during this time. Only after having broken off the communication could I, with the help of my Shaolin Wahnam seniors, return to my successful path of development.

Mark’s experience:

After the Intensive Kung Fu course I went out for dinner with Jin Leng and I was asking some very demanding questions of him about Shaolin Chi Kung and his experiences. Jin Leng spoke very positively and respectfully about Sifu and Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung and the benefits it had on him.

So you can imagine my surprise and sadness when I heard some of his actions from my brothers and sister – until I checked the dates. Those good times were in 2002, before Jin Leng left Sifu and worked for Master Yap in 2003 when the badmouthing and sabotaging began.

Lou Lang's experience:
What made me rally curious was the behavior of Jin Leng. I could really feel that he was really frustrated and full of anger towards Shaolin Wahnam in particular towards Sifu. He told me some things which were really not nice. One thing was that Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung was not working, the other in which way he was complaining about Sifu's fees. Something he told was shocking me extremely. Something what takes all your believe. I mean he told something which should take away all my hope and courage to follow the way of Shaolin Wahnam. This was also a direct attack towards Sifu



The Effects:
Anthony
What's worse is that Jin Leng and Sifu Yap significantly undermined my confidence in Shaolin Qigong. In the end, it took me a long time to recover from the damage done by Jin Leng and Sifu Yap. Of course, in the end it was Shaolin Cosmos Qigong that led to my recovery, not CFQ.

Cymon

During the time of December 04 to about March 2005 I had in total stopped training Shaolin Wahnam Kung Fu and Chi Kung for about three months and stopped all training for just over one of those three months. Considering my previous description of my life in London at that time you may guess the consequences. At the time I did not consciously feel that I was upset or down, more drained than anything else, a kind of numbness. Looking back I can say now, that in all honesty I was a complete and utter mess, literally a shadow of my previous self. Everyone who was there whom knows me can attest to this, I was giving off major, major negativity. Not consciously though, but my heart had closed up and my ego was winning and very much growing


Joan:

Finbar mentioning to a student with a very chronic illness that Shaolin Chi Kung wouldn’t work for her which led to many months of doubt in her mind.

Andrew:
The email exchange, looking at it now, was aimed at undermining any confidence I had ever had in Shaolin Wahnam and Sifu Wong. I was told in no uncertain terms that Sifu is a charlatan and that his Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung was a very low level system. In fact they even mentioned that Sifu was just a good salesman and had nothing to back up anything he claimed -- neither with his Kung Fu nor his Chi Kung.
All of this pushed me further and further down in my development and training. In fact my personal training hit an all time low during this time. Only after having broken off the communication could I, with the help of my Shaolin Wahnam seniors, return to my successful path of development.

End of summary.

If anybody else has an experience to share, of either hearing a belittling of Shaolin Chi Kung/Kungfu, being dined by Jin Leng/others, or confusion/undermining about practising Shaolin Chi Kung/Kungfu after attending a session with Master Yap, I would still really appreciate your contribution.

Again thanks for sharing all your thoughts and feelings so far.

Best wishes,
Joan

[Darryl]

Dear Maxime,

Your post is respectful, confident and articulate. On top of that, you include a poem and raise an excellent point - gratitude for the gift of priceless teachings.

I fail to see why I might be alarmed or think you either rude or arrogant .

[Zhang Wuji]

Dear friends

As this thread and the other related thread developed, a range of emotions went through me. I now realise that sometimes, it is better to have kept my mouth shut (or in this case, my fingers off the keyboard) until I knew more.

When I first read Yixin's post, I was sad to see him leave, but didn't think more about it save to wish him the best. Then I became disturbed at what seemed to me to be rather trenchant responses to what I saw as a simple goodbye post.

Then as more clarifications were given by our instructors, I became bewildered. Only a few months ago, we were posting course announcements for Master Yap, so I did not understand the seemingly sudden vehemence. Fortunately for me, I have never considered learning from Master Yap, so I was not as confused as some may have been. And even more fortunately for me, I will now never consider learning from him.

It is only now when all these is out in the open that I realise the full enormity of what has been transpiring. I think it is fair to say I am utterly disgusted at some of Master Yap's students have done. But the wonderful thing about these threads is that they have once again highlighted what a kind and generous person our Sifu is.

Hitherto, my experience of Sifu's generosity has been at a very personal level. It was this incident that let me realise the extent of Sifu's compassion. There is a Chinese phrase that I cannot translate accurately but says it all:
博爱. It should translate as universal love. It is amazing that Sifu would allow notices of Master Yap's courses to be posted on his website even after this betrayal was taking place. And the fact that Jin Leng could still show his face at intensive courses speaks volumes about Sifu's tolerance.

I am glad that the facts are out and a stance has been taken, a stance I am in as firmly as a Shaolin Horse-Riding stance. There is a Chinese saying I must share (sorry for all this foreign lingo): 过度的忍让是纵容 which translates roughly as "Excessive tolerance is to encourage the offender to do more evil / sanction the evil". Making these acts of betrayal and sabotage public is not only good for us, but also for the students of CFQ who may be unaware of the antics of some of their fellow students.

To an enlightened person whose trust has been betrayed, the act is only a reflection of the fallibility of man. But to the betrayer, saboteur and ingrate who finally sees the light, the feelings of guilt and remorse can be utterly devasating and crippling. Those who have been bad-mouthing Sifu will feel their own pain in due course.

Cymon, I definitely am not referring to you in the above paragraph, but to those like Jin Leng. What went through my mind when i read of your experiences was the realisation that it could have so easily have been me if I was also learning from Master Yap. To use rather offensive terms, there seems to have been much brainwashing and poisoning going on at CFQ. I contrast this with my own experience with Sifu, who has always encouraged me to work out my doubts, challenge and test everything (yet not over-intellectualise) and grow in my own way, at my own pace. While Sifu's students share much, if not all of Sifu's philosophy, you don't find us singing from the same hymn sheet. I am truly happy for you, Cymon. I find myself with the same sentiments of not being able to express how I feel about Sifu in words.

[beausimon]

Could Jin Leng also had been misled or brainwashed?

[Andrew]

Could Jin Leng also had been misled or brainwashed?

This is certainly a possibility considering the changes I saw in my former friend. Somehow the seed was there and some "force" encouraged this seed to burst.

But whether or not Jin Leng was misled or brainwashed is not the issue at hand. What is more important is to see and counter the systematic approaches which have been adopted against Sifu Wong and Shaolin Wahnam. This is much more and much more important than any one individual.

Andrew

[Charles David]

The Silver Lining

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I think it is worth remembering that Sifu's decision to spread his teaching to the west was prompted by the betrayal of some of his senior disciples in Malaysia. Using our Shaolin philosophy I'm sure that if we step back we will be able to

turn the situation to our advantage.

What a marvelous poem!

[julie]

Hi everyone,

I am really shocked and sad after reading this thread.

I respect Sifu Wong very much as he has shown great compassion and patience towards person who has created problems to him. This is a quality of a master who has cultivate his spirit to a high level. I also observe that Shaolin Wahnam students have shown their compassion and tolerance in handling this situation. I hope that compassion can convert this obstacle to an opportunity of a more successful future for Shaolin Wahnam school.

At the same time, I felt sorry for Yixin. This is a situation that is really difficult for him. I cannot imagine how Master Yap will respond to his email. I cannot offer much help to him and Shaolin Wahnam, but I hope further investigation can make things clearer and lead to a peaceful solution.

Best wishes,
Julie