That was Zen, this is Tao!

[Sifu Stier]

Ah, yes, quite so! But only the Immortals and Ascended Masters will live to see that, since this will not happen at any time in the near future! You may have to find something else to worry about in the meantime! LOL!

The 'unnatural behavior' can perhaps be seen as a new cycle in human history as you said, but at this point it is still more of a temporary departure from the cycles of all past generations. I say 'temporary' because conditions
on this planet could dramatically change again within our lifetime's, and thereby either force or inspire people to return to Nature once again as the source of their need and sustenance. It has only been 50 years since the time I spoke of in a earlier post when many people lived without electric power in their homes, no radio or television, no indoor toilets or water, and none of the many electronic and mechanical conveniences and appliances which most of us so depend on and take for granted today. Self-sufficiency is practically a lost art nowadays aside from those who live in remote wilderness areas or deep in the countryside far from major urban areas. But this is getting off topic a bit too far, so in keeping with the subject of this thread, perhaps it would do us all some good to meditate on how we would manage to adapt to radical changes in our current lifestyles, and seriously contemplate what parts of our present existence would be of use to us in the wake of unforeseen change!

[Charles David]

Good Things

Sifu Stier et al.

A very interesting thread indeed. Reading it I reflect on how my son is sitting and watching cartoons in front of the TV and I am here at the computer.
Well, it reminded me of a reggae song I used to listen to, called Good Things, by...I forget who. They suggest 'make Good use of good things-while they still work' while the fax machine still works, while the dvd still works, while the typewriter still works. seems to me the 'natural' way to view these 'commonplace' technologies is with wonder and gratitude.

LOL
(lots of love)
cha

[Emiko H]

Dear Sifu Stier,

I know very little about Taoism, and so, am learning much from this thread. Thank you.

Peace and blessings,

Emiko

[Black Hole]

Sifu Stier,

Thanks again for your reply.
Yes, those happy days he? ,but thanks to our modern times we can communicate to each other so easily.

Emiko,

Didn't we meet at Kay and Jean Lie's house last summer?

Best wishes,

Daniel

[Sifu Stier]

Getting back to Topic, a Taoist is by definition a Naturalist in that any consideration of Tao is intimately united to Nature. Philosophically, the manifestation of Tao begins in the Primordial Unified Stillness (Wu-Chi), then manifests as the Complimentary Polar Opposite Pairs (Tai-Chi/Yin-Yang) upon the slightest movement from the Unified One (Wu-Chi), then expressing itself through the Five Elements or Five Phases (Wu-Xing/Wu-Hsing), then through
the Stages of Transformation as Yin and Yang gradually cycle in dominance with one another (Pa-Kua/Eight Trigrams) and as the Eight Trigrams unite in
all of the possible pairings (8x8=64 Hexagrams). Additionally, each of the Five Elements have a Yin/Yang component (5x2=10 Celestial/Heavenly Stems). Fire Element has two Yin/Yang Pairs, so in total 6x2=12 Terrestrial or Earthly Branches related to the Daily Biorhythm Timetable, and so forth. Thus, from the Stillness of Unmoving Unity (Wu-Chi), the Energy and Spirit of Tao unfolds to manifest as the Myriad Things of All That Is, and conversely, everything in the Created Universe can be logically traced back to the Source of All That Is, Tao!

[chiron]

I never knew about those mathematical systems. is there alot of maths in taoism?!
because I'm thinking of having a look at maths in it's relativity to dimensions theory etc.

I thinkk what I'm asking is do you know anymore about maths in taosim?
thank you, selva

[Luo Lang]

WOW

People with such a profound wisdom about Taoism are very, very rare.

We are blessed to have you on board Sifu Stier,

Warmest Regards

Rolo

[Sifu Stier]

Hello Roland!

As always, you are most gracious and kind! Whenever I speak of these things with my Sifu I am left feeling that my knowledge and understanding is quite modest and small by comparison to his, but I think that is how it should be in a good Teacher/Student relationship. It inspires me to know that even after all I have learned thus far, a greater depth of knowledge and understanding still awaits me! Take care!

[barrys]

Sifu Stier,

Thank you for sharing your learning and experience.

I have been thinking about the question of modern life being unnatural and the natural cycles of life. How would Taoism account for the naturalness of this unnaturalness. This modern way of living has grown and developed. I am guessing that in some way it is a manifestation of the infinite source of all-that-is. Trees mishape in nature. They could be looked at as ugly. My guess is that Taoism would encourage a different way of looking - i.e. the mishapeness is in itself a manifestation of the Tao and therefore beauty is found. Is this true of the Taoist approach?

I sometimes feel "mishapen" in the way I develop my life. How can I see beauty in that? Is it about learning to do things differently or glorifying in the beauty of what is or both.

In my chi kung practice sometimes it takes a build up of resistance, experienced as physical pressure (conceptualised in my mind), before this novice practitioner realises I am resisting something. Is that Yin and Yang in operation - Yang increases before becoming Yin. At my stage the resistance seems necessary to realise there can be something else.

I don't know much about Taoism so I can only talk about my experience and the questions that come to mind. These questions are real for me. They are intended as a way of improving my understanding to use practically in my life.

Thank you again for taking the time to explain what has become true for you,

Barry

[Sifu Stier]

Hello barry:

Look again at the Tai-Chi-Tu (Yin/Yang Logo) and notice that in most representations of the diagram, each half contains a 'dot' of the opposite color and polarity. Traditional teaching holds the idea that these are not 'static forces' locked in unmoving opposition to one another, but rather are 'complimentary opposites' which constantly move in a dynamic flow of waxing and waning dominance in relationship to one another. It is also said that when either Yin or Yang reaches its fullest point of dominant expression,
it automatically changes into the opposite polarity of expression by way of the 'dot'. For example, one can awake from sleep feeling completely rested and 're-charged', strong and anxious to greet the activities of the day ahead.
But later, after digging post holes for several hours, and expending great amounts of energy in doing this and other physical or mental labors, the opposite 'state' is realized. Total exhaustion has overcome the worker. They
have no energy left to do anything more or to even think about anything more, and merely wish to lay down and sleep again. Now there is no activity whatsoever, and a 'cycle of alternating dominance' from Yang Dominant to Yin Dominant is completed. A new cycle will begin again upon reawakening.
In this way, it may be observed that everything in Nature, including the Human Experience, has its complimentary opposite. This holds true for every thought, every emotional feeling, every activity, every situation, every circumstance, every experience. As such, the 'unnaturalness' and 'mis-shapen' factors you sometimes perceive, if these are the 'exception' rather than the 'norm' for you, are nothing more than the 'dots' of your other half, and therefore actually an integral part of your 'real' nature. Accept these occaisional, temporary fluctuations as an important part of your growth, and embrace your other half with 'effortless being' in 'wholeness'!

[chiron]

thankyou for the clear explanations that advocate balance. It doesn't seem right anymore to complain about the weather .

[barrys]

Sifu Stier

Thanks for your encouragement. In the psychotherapy I practice we also look at the "shadow" elements of a persons manifest nature. When I remember I laugh at my perfectionistic tendencies.

Is this idea of one opposite being in the other the same as the Zen idea of life in death and death in life. Certainly I have found the renewed awareness of death in life has been helpful to put perspective on things.

I guess I was curious about how the lack of modern day flowing with nature fitted into the idea that everything is a manifestation of the Tao.

Thanks,

Barry

[Sifu Stier]

Dear Barry:

Please allow me to clarify further. From a Taoist perspective, everything in existence has a 'cycle of becoming and being'. This includes the physical, the mental and emotional, as well as the spiritual. These cycles sometimes reach full manifestation and expression in the first cycle without need of another, so the manifestation ends with the end of the cycle. In other cases, two or more cycles in repetition may be needed to complete the full expression of energy. In other instances, cycles are not just repeated as is, but undergo change and transformation in the process, resulting is a new expression of manifestation, a new direction, initiating a new cycle. But ultimately, all cycles have a 'shelf life', so to speak. As such, Taoists view all
as temporary, with 'change' as the only real constant. Hence, the popularity of the I-Ching, the Classic of Change!

Given this perspective, the manifestation of Tao is present even in that which appears to be 'unnatural' and 'inharmonius' with the Great Way of Heaven as expressed in Nature. And like everything else, is only temporary and ever subject to potential change! Additionally, Taoist belief states that
'the benefit of the majority will always take priority of importance over the benefit of the one or the few'. Thus, in some manner, shape, or way, perhaps unforeseen by us, Nature will manifest Her Laws and Forces to overcome that which threatens the survival and greatest good of the Creation as a Whole! It's probably closer than we think!

[Luo Lang]

Hi everybody,

"Those who wish to embody the Tao
should embrace all things.
To embrace all things means first
that one holds no anger or resistance
toward any idea or thing,
living or dead, formed or formless.
To embrace all things means also that one rids oneself
of any concept of separation; male and female,
self and others, life and death.
Divison is contrary to the nature of the Tao.
Foregoing antagonism and separation, one enters
into the harmonious oneness of all things."
attributed to Lao Tzu

in Brian Walker Hua Hu Ching: The Unknown Teachings of Lao Tzu (NY: HarperCollins, 1992,) p. 5

That I have found when searching stuff about Taoism. Speaking for myself: I am impressed, allthough most of the meaning I will maybe only be able to understand when I am ready for.

Hope you enjoy

Warmest regards

Rolo

[barrys]

Sifu Stier,

Thank you for taking the time to explain and clarify. It is helping me to understand the Taoist perspective.

Are these cycles of becoming and being something like the Buddhist idea of birth and re-birth? Where a single life might then become like a repetition of the same moment, a series of new lives lived in each moment (these I can both get my head around as it is similar to ideas in Jungian and Freudian psychotherapy - and makes sense of aspects of my life) or a breakthrough to a kind of immortality/maybe a constant remaining in the changing/the "full manifestation in one cycle" (this I haven't got my head around yet but then that is probably the wrong way to try and "get it").

These questions are both questions and me thinking out loud. I have wrestled with making sense of buddhist and taoist ideas in my own life experience. It is in the end the only way I can make sense of them. Certainly your explanation that things work for the greater good if one gets out of the way and that you can't always tell that a change (even thought it seems a bad one at the time) has also the potential for being a good one when taking a wider and longer perspective, makes sense in the light of experiences in my own life.

Thanks and best wishes,

Barry