How can i phrase this i really want to know !

[Dr.Frank Loo]

Dear Joko,

Thank you for your kind words.

We are one big family.

Best Regards,
Frank

[Kin Tama]

Hi all i am back

Hi all, 2 years ago almost i posted my posts and tbh i havent seen much change in things in shaolin wahnam, ive seen people call it akin to falun gong cult ive seen various posts on forums calling it bullshido etc etc.
I personally have yet to see anything come out of the warrior project in terms of any competition winning.
However i must admit i did like the promo video on youtube cheesy matrix style but good fun.

One thing has changed though i am in london for a short time and would actually be able to visit a school if i am welcome to do so without paying a huge sign up fee and block of classes. I would like to visit the south london school if it would be a good indication of shaolin wahnam as it seems to be the easiest accessible to me.

1) im not looking to fight/cause trouble/be offensive i think this serves no purpose as i have nothing to gain or lose if i were to win or lose.
If one person were to beat 10 20 30 students of another style would that mean the style is no good? What if the same person were to then lose to a single student from that style would it be the style or the student?
what if a professional fighter were to be beat by someone who has never trained but has a fit of anger at him, what about a teacher who can teach but cant fight.

2) i am looking to be trained participate learn just as anyone would in the school and talk about m.a with other enthusiasts

3) i am looking to see, what so many people are truly going bonkers over as the way i see it and have seen it all along hasn't changed and i believe i could offer what shaolin wahnam offers for a mere fraction of the cost and with actual realism in it !!! I also believe that other clubs or schools already do this.

4) If i am not welcome thats fine as some people may view my motives as offensive towards shaolin wahnam. I was however originally offended by the comparison of shaolin wahnam as being superior to other styles in not so many words so i took up this stance.

Many thanks.

[Charles David]

Good Luck

Well, Allow me to be the first to say welcome back Kin Tama. I'm more than a little bit surprised to see you both a) continuing to insult our school and b) asking to come for a lesson. All I can say is good luck. I'm really curious about how my seniors and my Sifu are going to respond to your request. (Though I have some suspicions) It's been very interesting rereading this long thread, though. Along the way I found a wonderful example of the proper attitude to take when when seeking to learn something. As it turns out Molly is now another happy Wahnam student .

So, here's what I think. First of all, my knowledge of your school and everyone on this forum is scant at best. My kungfu experience has been limited to a few years training Longfist with a great practice partner and dear friend. My friend (who'll remain nameless until he gives me the okay to use it on the forum), discovered the Wahnam school purely by hazard on the internet I believe. When he was accepted for his first intensive course with Sifu Wong last year, he told me about it and I thought "you're crazy, dude. That sounds hard!" Off he went. I could barely believe this was the same person when he came home. I saw within him peace, joy, and clarity that I'd never seen in all the years I've known him. Now, I've not even gotten to the kungfu yet! Since he needed to review what he learned in the course, he showed me the basics that he'd learned. Now, I've always been a forms girl. I hated to spar or apply techniques. I found it stressful and difficult to think on my feet, not to mention clumsy and awkward. I was so amazed by how simple and straightforward all the techinques were to apply. I actually began to enjoy sparring and slowly felt (feel) the stress and anticipation slipping away. Sparring and combat sequences with my friend now takes up the majority of our practice time...the point I'm trying to make is I feel like I've benefitted more in my kungfu and qigong practice after a few short months of reading Sifu Wong's materials, practicing with my friend, and reading this forum than I did in 4 or so years of longfist practice (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not a great style). What's more is that outside of the martial aspect, I can almost feel my heart loosening up after being clenched shut for so many years. I read this forum, and (get ready this is gonna get cheesy), y'all just make me feel so good! And so informed, too! For my friend, he has nothing but wonderful things to say about Sifu, and those of you he's met and trained with. As for me, I'm now gearing up to attend my first intensive course. Though I'll admit I'm totally freaked out, I'll also say I'm more excited for this than I've been for anything in nearly a decade. So now I'm done ranting, and this is my complete opposing opinion to that of our...friend Kin Tama.
Warmest Regards,
Molly

I'd sure like to see you become a Wahanm student, Kin, but with your attitude I would really be surprised if it were to happen. I still don't think you have the foggiest idea of what our school is about.



Again, Good Luck.

Still,

[Tim]

Hi all, 2 years ago almost i posted my posts and tbh i havent seen much change in things in shaolin wahnam

Once again you seem to have become blind and missed the many changes - one thing that appears not to have changed though is your own personal progression and lack of respect.

1) im not looking to fight/cause trouble/be offensive i think this serves no purpose as i have nothing to gain or lose if i were to win or lose.

If you lose you will learn, if you win you will learn. If you learn nothing, then you are blind or ignorant.

However i must admit i did like the promo video on youtube cheesy matrix style but good fun.

I am glad you like the video, however once again you may have missed many hidden secrets and training methodology.

2) i am looking to be trained participate learn just as anyone would in the school and talk about m.a with other enthusiasts

I have to disagree, most students that come to train with us do with an open heart and mind. Your curiosity will not satisfy your closed mind.

i believe i could offer what shaolin wahnam offers for a mere fraction of the cost and with actual realism in it

If by realism you mean the ability to cause pain then once again you have really missed the point. If you believe you can offer the same as what has been passed down from Sifu Wong then your posts would have carried with them greater respect and clarity for a start. As for the rest, and judging by your posts, you still have a really long way to go. Have fun trying though!

Are you a better fighter then one of the students or instructors? It matters not? Your ability as a fighter is not the measure of your understanding of an 'art', merely your effectiveness as a fighter. If we pitched ourselves as purely a fighting sport/art then this maybe different. The sad fact is, what we teach has more to it than you have been able to see in two years of provoking and watching with your closed eyes, what makes you think you will learn anything in one lesson?

We teach to deserving students, are you deserving?

Respectfully

Sifu Tim Franklin

[Antonius]

Dear Golden Testicles (aka Kin Tama),

If you truly believe that Shaolin Wahnam has nothing of value to offer, then why are you here? Few people would waste time on something that they consider worthless, myself included. And yet you are here on our forum. Why?

You are here because you are not 100% sure about us. You have your opinions, mostly negative, but you are still curious about why so many people, including people with many years of martial arts experience, are raving about Shaolin Wahnam. You can't figure it out.

So now you want to investigate in order to be sure? Perhaps you should have thought about that before being disrespectful. Your behavior here was foolish and shortsighted. Sadly, you've already ruined your opportunity to learn from Shaolin Wahnam.

There was no good reason to be disrespectful. It served no purpose. You could easily have investigated Shaolin Wahnam without being rude. In fact, that is what most of us did. We had our doubts, but we remained respectful, and investigated thoroughly before jumping to conclusions.

In investigating dozens of internal arts masters, I always had my doubts, but I always allowed for the possibility that I might be wrong. I was always extremely respectful, as well as sincere, when approaching various masters, including Sifu Wong. That behavior paid off well for me. In fact, it paid off better than lotto.

Your behavior did not pay off so well because you did not allow for the possibility that you might be wrong. Now you must deal with the consequences of your actions. You reap what you sow.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your search. If you learn from your mistakes here, there is still the possibility of learning from some internal arts master outside of Shaolin Wahnam. But if you don't learn from your mistakes, then I am quite sure that you will never have the opportunity to learn from a master.

Sincerely,

[Antonius]

One more thing.

I was however originally offended by the comparison of shaolin wahnam as being superior to other styles in not so many words so i took up this stance.

I personally think that Karate is inferior to Kung Fu, and I say that as a nidan in Goju-ryu. That's my opinion. That's why I practice Shaolin Kung Fu. That's why I couldn't tell you where my black belt is.

Meanwhile, I know plenty of Karate black belts who think that Kung Fu is worthless. That's their opinion, and that's why they practice Karate, not Kung Fu. Pretty much every traditional martial artist I've ever met, whether it be Jujitsu, Kung Fu, Silat, or Greco-Roman wrestling, thinks that their style is the greatest. We're no different. We think that Shaolin Kung Fu is the cat's meow.

You were offended by Shaolin Wahnam? Seriously? Are you also offended by every other traditional martial artist who thinks that his style is the greatest? Are you offended by people who think that BMWs are the greatest cars in the world? Do you visit BMW discussion forums and mouth off to BMW enthusiasts?

[Luo Lang]

Thank you Anthony!

[Martin Do]

I spent much time reading the posting on this thread last night and I just have one thing to say.

Thank you to all my brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts and great uncles at Shaolin Wahnam for your postings. Thank you for your demonstration of patience, kindness, wisdom and humour as well as for sharing your experiences and stories.

With great respect and gratitude, I would like to offer my shaolin salute to all at Shaolin Wahnam.

Kindest regards

Martin

[Kin Tama]

Morning all, the debate continuous,
cha muir, mollys story sounds great one of the things actually that does make me think why ??? however it sounds the same as kids who i knew who enrolled last year in the universities karate class that was free with something like annual 40 dollar membership and 50 free lessons !
Antonious i always like your replies i think you deserve better than what your getting, because sometimes i feel wahnam students are herded cult style and you are really searching. Anyhow

zbee your replies as well as a lot of wahnam mumbo jumbo reads out like a bad kung fu movie script, i am guilty of being like this in the past, years ago only cause i used to get it everywhere too, i used to buy books from now long gone martial artists learn from teachers read stories and they were all full of pearls of wisdom, which nowadays i view as other peoples thoughts and who knows if they even had the slightest idea of what they were on about !

Quote:
Hi all, 2 years ago almost i posted my posts and tbh i havent seen much change in things in shaolin wahnam
Once again you seem to have become blind and missed the many changes - one thing that appears not to have changed though is your own personal progression and lack of respect.

Maybe wahnam students are blind and i am trying to open their eyes

Quote:
1) im not looking to fight/cause trouble/be offensive i think this serves no purpose as i have nothing to gain or lose if i were to win or lose.
If you lose you will learn, if you win you will learn. If you learn nothing, then you are blind or ignorant.

When i said i had nothing to lose or gain i was referring to the fact that wahnam is a society that has students and the instructor of that class has students etc etc, if that instructor were to lose not only might the school go down the drain but video footage or whatever around the net would impact wahnam in a negative way, on the other hand wahnam would stand to gain that it might change its ways.
Compared to i dont want to boost my reputation and have no gain in doing so, lesson wise i guess we learn all the time. Its more a case of putting these lessons into practise.

Quote:
However i must admit i did like the promo video on youtube cheesy matrix style but good fun.
I am glad you like the video, however once again you may have missed many hidden secrets and training methodology.

Ahhh young padwan the secrets of the jedi order flow deep in the organisation

Quote:
2) i am looking to be trained participate learn just as anyone would in the school and talk about m.a with other enthusiasts
I have to disagree, most students that come to train with us do with an open heart and mind. Your curiosity will not satisfy your closed mind.

Ermmmmmmm i think it willl because, to be analytical i havent placed wahnam very high on the list of my thinking wow, so at worst i leave mumbling blah exactly what i thought and if its even a little better than that i would think hey shit sorry damn you know this school is one in a million. And sincerely apologise.

Quote:
i believe i could offer what shaolin wahnam offers for a mere fraction of the cost and with actual realism in it
If by realism you mean the ability to cause pain then once again you have really missed the point. If you believe you can offer the same as what has been passed down from Sifu Wong then your posts would have carried with them greater respect and clarity for a start. As for the rest, and judging by your posts, you still have a really long way to go. Have fun trying though!

Does this apply to me or sifu wong ? The way i see it the way i am acting is actually only turning the tables around as sifu wong quite publicly bashed all other styles as being inferior 1stly and secondly as for having a long way to go sifu wong learnt tai chi from a book something that mere mortals would not be allowed to do based on more of these questions and answers.

As for what my definition of realism is, its what works, who is the winner at the end of a race, the guy who comes first or the guy who started off life as an autistic cripple cured himself then manage to just complete the marathon ? Im sure your answer would be the real winner is one who overcomes the self anyhow realism is what works best in the situation its meant to work in.

Are you a better fighter then one of the students or instructors? It matters not? Your ability as a fighter is not the measure of your understanding of an 'art', merely your effectiveness as a fighter.

If the first question is literal then i am sure i am better than many and i am assuming i may be worse than others too. My ability as a fighter is understanding of what works and is applicable not just through conceptual tradition.
What i believe though is that what shaolin wahnam teaches and what the students learn and absorb is not actually beneficial in fighting, self defense, or is actually applicable in a combat sport which is there to test effectiveness of an art. For example if you were to create a hypothetical competition between someone who is versed in a fighting art, and someone who is versed in wahnam skills, and actually impose rules that the wahnam student must use his movements in application and the other combatant may use his chosen forms of attack and defense. I believe the wahnam student would lose every time.



If we pitched ourselves as purely a fighting sport/art then this maybe different. The sad fact is, what we teach has more to it than you have been able to see in two years of provoking and watching with your closed eyes, what makes you think you will learn anything in one lesson?

We teach to deserving students, are you deserving?

Good last part i believe what you write is what im saying but only from your schools point of view towards an offensive outsider whereas im writing from an outside point of view daring to be different.

Am i deserving i dont think we can judge ourselves as we are usually biast


Antonius

If you truly believe that Shaolin Wahnam has nothing of value to offer, then why are you here? Few people would waste time on something that they consider worthless, myself included. And yet you are here on our forum. Why?

I like talking about martial arts, i like seeing so many people around who are thirsty for knowledge, i have the spare time to and lastly because i hate fanaticism and i get suckered into one more post.

About being disrespectful i feel i was merely replying to sifu wongs answers about other styles with the same attitude.
As for the style versus style debate, ive generally found that for some weird reason wing chunners think they are gods gift to martial arts, however when i started to talking to the right people who had evolved far enough i realised that there is a big lump of arts in one big pot that are all equally as good as each other, there are only special people who carry that art high. And most people shared the same view. I do agree though that a lot of people say my art is the best, but most of these people couldnt wipe their own backside.
But when a respectable member of the martial arts community (sifu wong) with a large following of students publicly makes these claims then a reply is something that might be expected. especially when a number of the students are running around blowing their own trumpets.
As for your believing goju is inferior to shaolin kung fu , please expand on why, Im not talking about because kung fu has the ability to make people fly like in crouching tiger hidden dragon but goju doesnt claim this, i mean in essence what did you find that made what you are learning now superior to then, and could you say that maybe its the teacher who is better and not the style ?
As for visiting bmw forums and mouth off, erm i was a car enthusiast and worked with cars for 4-5 years !! I did like debates about cars, but most of the time people had claims, look at this new engine durability look at this system look at this architecture look at these races awards or tests so people who bash usually get ignored cause theres facts.

[8nsteen8]

-

The wheel keeps rolling and rolling and rolling.

Enjoy the ride

Sincerely,
Niklas

[Matt F.]

Tin Kama,

This website is part of the Shaolin Wahnam school. It is for the Shaolin Wahnam students. Shaolin Wahnam allows the public to be here. The public can see for themselves some of what takes place within Shaolin Wahnam. It costs nothing to be a member of the forum.

What else do you want for free?!

Sifu Wong has said he feels that Shaolin kungfu is the best martial art. He has also stated that other martial arts are lesser. You have stated what you do is the best. And that other practices, I believe you called them fanatical, are lesser. The only difference is that Sifu Wong has made his statements "in house" for people that come to him, and you go out of your way to find people to tell your beliefs to. Do you see the difference?

I enjoy debating religion and right/wrong with people. What I don't do is go into a church, tell them I think they are wrong, and then get upset when they don't feel like it's their duty to prove to me that they are right.

If you think you are right, start a school of your own. Teach people. Have an internet forum. Spread your ideas that way. If you are right, people will come to you. Maybe that's why so many people have come to Shaolin Wahnam. I don't know yet.

[Antonius]

Maybe wahnam students are blind and i am trying to open their eyes

You start with the presumption that we are blind, which is a pretty bold, arrogant statement in itself. You presume (even after a long "discussion" where things were explained to you in detail) that we haven't seen as much as you. You presume that we choose Shaolin Wahnam because we don't know any better. You presume that free videos of relative beginners are enough to make an informed opinion. That's a lot of presuming.

Perhaps you should open your own eyes before trying to "enlighten" others. For example, you call us blind, and yet you continue to be blind to your own behavior here. That doesn't make for a very convincing argument.

Of course, we are not blind. This has already been explained to you. For example, I searched long and hard. Here is a chart of the teachers that I learned from. There are dozens more that I investigated but didn't learn from. I also have an extensive collection of martial arts books and videos.

Who have you learned from?

Many of my classmates did the same as I did. My sihing Kai is the ultimate example. After winning hundreds of full-contact, mixed-style matches, he traveled throughout China and SE Asia searching for a high-level master. He politely challenged, and beat, all of them. Of all the martial artists and masters I have met (and I've met some tough and scary fighters), I would place Kai in the top 5 in fighting ability. The fact that he chooses to be Sifu's student says a lot about Shaolin Wahnam.

Kin Tama, how many students do you have? How many international championships have you won?

Kai and I are just two examples. There are dozens more. In short, we are experienced martial artists who made an informed decision to join Shaolin Wahnam.

Who are you?

By the way, at this point, I'm not really expecting to get through to you. You obviously don't listen. You just keep repeating the same things even after a detailed explanation has been offered. You just don't get it. My analogy about BMW enthusiasts is a perfect example. Did you hear the "whoosh" sound as my analogy flew over your head?

So why do I spend time responding to you? Post's like Roland's (Luo Lang) and Martin's might give you a hint.

[Kin Tama]

drop fair enough, im not really looking for anything for free however since the forum is here to voice opinions i am doing that, the same way your sifu decided the net was to voice opinions and market himself. Otherwise im sure it would be like i have seen with other martial arts organisations open only to students.

As for antonius reply please gimme a break

Many of my classmates did the same as I did. My sihing Kai is the ultimate example. After winning hundreds of full-contact, mixed-style matches, he traveled throughout China and SE Asia searching for a high-level master. He politely challenged, and beat, all of them. Of all the martial artists and masters I have met (and I've met some tough and scary fighters), I would place Kai in the top 5 in fighting ability. The fact that he chooses to be Sifu's student says a lot about Shaolin Wahnam.

""after i walked up to mount wudang and drank the elixir of immortality i met the one legged monk who ....""

First of all your sihing kai is probably the only one out of the organisation who can fight,judging by the video clips of other students, and that he is who most people refer to, this however has nothing to do with shaolin wahnam as he was according to you an accomplished fighter long before this and secondly i would like to see the proof of his hundreds of full contact fights, i have never heard of, on any internationally renowned circuit from the west or far east of his name. And also does he believe that if he has indeed won all those hundreds of matches he could have won them had he trained in shaolin wahnam from day one and used just that ?

Also can i please call bullshit on travelling all of se asia and china and challenging high level masters which he defeated, did he challenge sifu wong also and was defeated by his flying rice palm, or was it just that he saw his aura through the internet and paid 1500 dollars for a 3 day course and saw the light ?

And if anything one of the reasons he choses your sifu COULD BE because he gets instant name branding, i too have been made similar offers in the past and by many many ""reputable"" organisations, not only this but your own sifu actually offered me to come to a course so i can be branded a sifu for my country just from 2 or 3 letters correspondance over 8 years ago. Its marketing its gimmicks.

As for getting through to me your right you probably wont because i havent seen anything to make me go, damn they are right i should shut up now. The same way i havent got through to anyone here.

You presume that free videos of relative beginners are enough to make an informed opinion

Thats all i have seen on the website its a load of begginers going ooh i love my chi i love everybody we all get together and feel our chi to do our kung fu patterns with our loving chi lets share our secret techniques of hoeing her field so he can grab my peaches.
So once again i say what makes your style better than the others and if what i see in the video clips is a bunch of beginners why isnt there some clips that really are amazing. If i am missing something from the clips i actually said i would since i have a few days actually go to learn and see for myself. But no i am not humble or worthy for the graciousness of it.

But you see the thing is i dont actually mind, the way i see it shaolin wahnam is just like run of the mill karate for kiddies school, only with a bit of new age hippyness thrown in the mix and a bit of chi. So whilst ignorance is bliss, why should i even try to burst peoples perfect bubble ?

My question still stands though about what you found lacking in goju ryu karate as a system or a style compared to shaolin wahnam.

[Charles David]

The Benefits of Kung Fu are Holistic

Over and over again we have stated, our martial art, Shaolin Kung Fu, brings us:

good health
vitality
mental freshness
combat efficiency
spiritual joy

I am currently enjoying all of these benefits and they extend to every area of my life.

From his last post, Kin Tama has shown us that he is not even enjoying the lowest level of these benefits, namely good health. Clearly he is suffering from poor mental and emotional health.

Despite his mocking diatribe I continue to wish him the best of luck; after all, nothing he says will prevent me from continuing to enjoy the benefits our arts bring me.

Kindly,

[Antonius]

Enough.

I’m going to address your questions, and then I’m going to ban you. This discussion is futile. You don’t listen, and worse, you are rude. Here is an example:

did he challenge sifu wong also and was defeated by his flying rice palm, or was it just that he saw his aura through the internet and paid 1500 dollars for a 3 day course and saw the light ?

First of all, yes, Kai sparred with Sifu Wong and subsequently became his student. Secondly, grow up.

i would like to see the proof of his hundreds of full contact fights

So you want proof? Okay. Why don’t you go ask him face-to-face? He’s in Frankfurt, Germany. Or better yet, why don’t you just go ask any well-seasoned martial artist in Germany. They all know Kai. Many also know Kai’s JKD students, who are also international sparring champions. Or maybe we should Fed-Ex the proof to your house?

Also can i please call bullshit on travelling all of se asia and china and challenging high level masters which he defeated

Again, is something bullshit because you say so? Or maybe you want to see documentation, flight itinerary, and hotel registries for his travels? By the way, sihing Kai didn’t just walk up to masters and rudely challenge them. He was, as always, extremely polite. In some of the situations, he signed up as a rank beginner and endured months of arduous training before getting an opportunity to spar with the master.

And if anything one of the reasons he choses your sifu COULD BE because he gets instant name branding

More presumptions. Kai didn’t need any name branding. He was already well known and respected long before meeting Sifu Wong.

your own sifu actually offered me to come to a course so i can be branded a sifu for my country just from 2 or 3 letters correspondance over 8 years ago

No, what my Sifu offered you was an opportunity to train to become an instructor. I know because he did the same thing with me. But your attitude wouldn't have gotten you very far. If you had gone to a seminar and acted the way you're acting here, I'm quite sure that Sifu would have refunded your money and asked you to leave.

You missed a golden opportunity. I'm glad I didn't. Thank you for reminding me.