UK Sword ban

[TaiChiPete]

Dear martial artists

It has come to my attention that there is a call for a ban on the sale and import of all swords in the UK. The government are considering this in response to sword crime (I have not managed to find statistics on sword related crime but my guess is that it is low). In order to voice their disapproval of the ban a number of martial artists, Scottish sword dancers, collectors etc. have voiced their concern by signing a petition (see below). Not everyone agrees that swords should not be banned in fact following the stabbing and killing of a man in Exeter, the Exeter Echo presented a petition to the prime minister with 1500 signatures calling for Samurai swords to be included in the offensive weapons listed in the criminal justice act.

Interestingly there is already legislation in Scotland that requires anyone selling swords to be licensed and to make reasonable checks to ensure the purchase is for legitimate purposes.

If you would like to continue using your weapons in a safe way without stigma or risk of law breaking and you are a UK citizen it is possible to lodge your disapproval of such a ban by signing the petition on the number 10 website.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/swords/

The following is a quote from the petition creator on the proposed ban.

The proposed ban on the import, sale and manufacture of swords will have an adverse effect on legitimate practitioners, collectors and manufacturers. Actual sword related crime is very rare and does not warrant a ban that affects the cultural activities of thousands of legitimate martial artists, collectors and smiths. Current legislation is quite adequate to deal with violent crime connected with bladed weapons. New legislation is merely for show. Enforcing such a ban will also affect cultural events such as Scottish Sword Dancing and many Sikh festivals. We urge the PM to reconsider this knee jerk reaction to media influenced scare mongering.

I should note that this petition is to my knowledge not associated with the Shaolin Wahnam Institute.

Pete

[Tarkus]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Pete.

I was going to post a political diatribe, but the nature of such a post would invariably be epic.

Suffice to say;
Continual erosion of liberty can only lead to suffering of the majority. Obligatory reference to 1984, invoke the fate of the former USSR, denouncement of pseudo-neo-facist modern center-right governance, etc.

Many thanks,
Alasdair.

[drunken boxer]

Hmmm... we could get a lively debate going here!

I can see both sides of this argument.

I think martial artists should be allowed to keep their weapons of course, its part of keeping these arts and culture alive, and I think martial artists rarely do people harm either with their skills or their weapons.

But also I know the problems that blade culture is causing in the UK and Ireland these days. I'm thinking specifically about knives, but samurai swords and other such weapons feature too. My neighbour complained about a noisy party about 2 years ago, and was then cut to pieces with a machete.

So I think these weapons should be treated like shotguns. Those with legitimate reasons for holding shotguns (like farmers) can obtain them if they register with the police and get approval etc.

As for the blade culture thing, I think the UK and also Ireland are far far far far far too soft on these crimes and criminals as it is. Despite their relative wealth, the UK and Ireland are still regarded as the two most violent countries in western europe. Your average street scumbag still thinks its worth the risk to carry and use a knife. Others then, who wouldn't carry a knife normally, feel they have to in order to even the score and protect themselves. Its a vicious circle and it needs to change.

[cnholmes]

Can you find a reference to the exact details of the proposal?

I did a quick search on google and found an article on the BBC which says

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/4788881.stm

Exemptions to the ban on sword sales include swords that are to be used for Highland dancing, museum displays, historical re-enactments, fencing and martial arts.

The article mentions scottish Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson, adding that to my google search turned up this:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/pqa/wa-04/wa1210.htm

bit of wriggling going on there...

In the absense of any other source, it might be worth looking into the proposals put to the Scottish Parliamentto see if we can find out more.

Got to go now, but I'll look back here later.

Regards,
Chris.

[TaiChiPete]

More details on proposed legislation

Guys,

Following Chris's question I have done a bit more digging. The government are proposing adding some items to those items already illegal under the 1998 criminal justice act. At the moment the current proposal appears only to add imitation samurai swords. See links:

Press release: -
http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press...urai-sword-ban

Consultation paper: -
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documen...e-weapons-0307

Whilst the intent is to ban cheap inmitiation samuri swords that tend to have been used in violent crime (according to the consultation paper) the proposed deffinition is

“a curved, single edged sword (sometimes known as a “samurai sword”)”.

One question the consultation paper asks is is this a suitable definition.

The consultation paper was bublished this month with resposes to be in by the 28th May. The home office has a specific email adress for raising comments on the consultation paper - Offensiveweapons@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

Hope this adds some clarity.

Peter

[JoseFreitas]

Although I am not in the UK, I think you guys should be welcoming this legislation, and pressuring yoiur government to also ban butchering and carving knives, as well as any other kind of sharp knives we'd use at home to eat meat of to cut through a wire. I am almost 100% sure more people are injured, attacked or killed every year with knives than with swords. By the way, we should ban shotguns altogether, also, I am pretty sure more people are killed with shotguns than with swords.

And we should start thinking of automobiles, too...

José de Freitas
Portugal

[TaiChiPete]

Jose, Paul,

Just a quick reply for now I will try to get some more details later. In the UK there was a ban on handguns brought in a few years ago (1998) - this included making it illegal to own handguns for sport including some those used for Olympic sport. My brief study of the home office figures shows no link to a reduction in gun crime – in fact gun crime appears to have continued to rise and be influenced by other factors. My conclusion is that banning hand guns has not reduced the availability of guns to criminals and therefore has had no impact on crime. I think that as sword crime is much less common than gun crime a ban on swords would be even less effective in reducing crime.

I'll try to back this up later with some facts and figures.

Pete

PS Moderators - this might sit better in the Miscellaneous Discussions area.

[drunken boxer]

Hi Pete,

Yes, you make a good point. I think probably a better ploy than banning swords (or handguns) would be to make the punishments for abuse of swords/blades etc much tougher than they are now.

Like I said, lots of people still think carrying a knife is ok. That has to be changed. To me, criminals and would be criminals should live in fear, rather than victims and would be victims living in fear as I personally believe is the case in the uk right now. I believe that criminals have to be made to feel that carrying or using a blade is not a risk worth taking. There are two ways of achieveing this:

1. Ensure that everyone who carries or uses a blade illegally knows that they will almost certainly be caught.
(This would be extremely expensive and difficult.)

2. Ensure that people who carry or use blades illegally know that even though they may not be caught, IF they ARE caught then the punishment will be massive.

Those who live in the UK will know that two teenagers have been stabbed to death in London within the past couple of days. Those who have lived in the UK for a long time will know that people get stabbed and beaten to death every day in the UK but only a few cases make the news. Maybe someone more enlightened than me can tell me why?

ps the same thing happens in Ireland.

Paul

[JoseFreitas]

So, I guess I should have added some sarcasm emoticon... Though I am not sure about firearms, I am pretty certain that banning swords is an asinine thing, because "down that road lies madness"!

José