Low Stance Single Whip and Striking Tiger Poise

[Jeffrey Segal]

Hello Everybody,

In the thread on Yielding, Joko was wondering about the subtle differences between Low Stance Single Whip and Striking Tiger Poise.

When I began learning Taijiquan from Sifu in 2000, we only used Low Stance Single Whip. My first encounter with Strike Tiger Poise was in 2002 when Sifu taught me the 108 pattern Yang Style Set. More recently, we have incorporated Striking Tiger Poise into our Wahnam Taijiquan set and our combat sequences.

I’d like to ask our Wahnam Taijiquan practitioners (particularly those who attended the intensive course in Sungai Petani earlier this year) to tell us about their experiences with both patterns and what they think may have prompted Sifu to start using Striking Tiger Poise. I’ll post my thoughts on this in a few days.

Best regards,

[DarkCosmoz]

Jeffrey,

Please forgive me for posting as I am not a Wahnam Taijiquan student, but I have been wondering about this as well.

Striking Tiger Poise looks very similar to Part Wild Horse's Main in the Old Yang style I practice.

Based on my personal experience and the style I practice, Low Single Whip Stance (or Snake Creeps Up) takes a tiny bit longer to execute then Strike Tiger. In Strike Tiger, you don't lower your body as much as Low Single Whip Stance. To me, Strike Tiger seems faster. I may be wrong though.

Kind regards,
Stephen

[KungFuJoe]

I had a look at Sifu's pictures of Strike Tiger. I found it unusual that the weight looked to be on the rear foot. I've only always seen in on the lead foot, and hence Snake Creeps Down is a completely different technique.

I know it as a striking pattern... either two strikes, or a parry and strike. I'll ask my Sifu about its applications as well...

Tai Chi rocks!

Joe

[Robin]

Beutiful Patterns

Hi everyone,

Hi SiHeng Jeffrey, hope the studies are going well. I was lucky enough to attend that course and have also pondered on the two patterns,

In my expirience I would agree that Striking Tiger poise is quicker to execute. And when using it to counter a kick I find it quicker to produce a counter attack from. I also feel more internal force in that pattern, then in Low single whip. But that doesnt mean that I dont still use and like Low Single whip. I find that when you need to yeild 'just that little bit more' to avoid an attack it is easy to then sink into Low Single Whip from Striking Tiger Poise (as in our Combat sequences). I would also favour Low Single Whip when countering attacks like whirlwind kicks, to create more distance between me and the attack.

I would very much like to hear other peoples opinions on these two Beautiful patterns.

Cheers
Robin

[joko]

Thanks, Jeffrey Sihing, for starting this thread.
It makes me into more thinking rather than just wondering.

In my experience, 'Striking Tiger Poise' is easier to perform than 'Low Stance Single Whip', particularly for those whose legs are not flexible enough yet. Those who start practicing martial arts since very young age would not have problems with the flexibililty of legs. But those who start practicing at older age, like I, myself, I started when I was already 49, would find it difficult to go into very low stance. I have overcome this, though, with my daily practice of "Art of Flexible Legs'.
Although it is easier (and therefore faster), when perform "Striking Tiger Poise' there would be just enough space to avoid the kick.

With 'Striking Tiger Poise', you can neutralize two consecutive kicks with efficient movements without moving the feet or stance, just go into lower stance; e.g., follows with 'Low Stance Single Whip' to counter the next kick. (This is relative, sometimes it is necessary to move the feet to adjust the spacing with the oncoming attack).
If you apply "Low Stance Single Whip' to counter a kick, then when another kick is coming, you would have to apply another pattern to counter the next kick, for instance with 'Green Dragon Shoots Pearl'. This would need more movements to perform.

And yes, as Sihing Robin has stated, the counter attack is faster when we apply 'Striking Tiger Poise' followed by 'Fierce Dragon Across Stream', than when applying 'Low Stance Single Whip' followed by 'Fierce Dragon' or 'Golden Cockerel Stands in One Leg'.

Certainly in other situations, 'Low Stance Single Whip' would have its own advantage. Would Sihings be kind to explain?

Happy practicing,
Joko

[joko]

I had a look at Sifu's pictures of Strike Tiger. I found it unusual that the weight looked to be on the rear foot. I've only always seen in on the lead foot, and hence Snake Creeps Down is a completely different technique.

Have you noticed the pattern 'Striking Tiger' in the Second Part of 108 Yang Style? I mean the one after 'Cross Hand Thrust Kick', followed by 'Striking Tiger' Left Side, then 'Striking Tiger Right Side'. Is the weight not on the rear foot?
In this particular pattern, the rear foot happens to be also the lead foot, as the upper body first facing to the rear, then turns to face front again at the completion of the pattern, and the weight ends at the rear foot.

Regards,
Joko

[Jeffrey Segal]

good work!

Hello Everybody,

Thanks to Stephen and Joe for posting your thoughts. I’m sure that Stephen is happy to see that his thinking was similar to Robin and Joko.

Great posts from Joko and Robin, I agree with all you’ve written. Isn’t combat sequence 8 marvelous? I love the way we can fluidly go from Strike Tiger Poise to Low Stance Single Whip.

Another useful aspect of Strike Tiger Poise is that you can strike the leg that is kicking you i.e. you are out of harm’s reach and can already counterattack without needing to change your stance.

Thinking more in the “safety first” department, I find that my front knee is less vulnerable in Strike Tiger than in Low Stance Single Whip.

I’ll have to think about other advantages of Low Stance Single Whip apart from its longer range and eminent suitability against whirlwind kicks. Have any of you tried waiting for your opponent to come in and then meeting them with a kick? From Low Stance Single Whip, the weight distribution is just nice for kicking with the extended leg.

Best regards,

[Chiahua]

Having had no actual Taijiquan combat training, I'm curious--in the 108 sequence snake creeps down/low stance single whip is followed by golden rooster stands on one leg. Jeffrey, you were saying that kicking with the extended (I take it to be the front foot) foot is useful. Do you find the snake creeps down -> golden rooster sequence useful? It seems like you need quite a bit of leg strength to execute that sequence quickly enough to be effective...

[Jamie Robson]

'Don't use Force, use Force'

Hello

To quote Sunyata -

It seems like you need quite a bit of leg strength to execute that sequence quickly enough to be effective...

Excercises like Zhang Zhuan and Flexible Legs deepen and enhance the flow in our entire body, including legs. Harmonious Chi Flow and Internal Force increases speed and strength without relying on big muscles. So movements such as this are easy.

Respect

[KungFuJoe]

Joko,

I never saw it that way, but I think you're right. I just thought of it like you were doing the same technique in a different direction, not doing it with reversed footwork. Sort of like a Yang style "Throwing Anchor", or at least I think that's what the Chen pattern is called.

I personally find the Tai Chi Chuan patterns to be much more esoteric and hard to understand that Shaolin patterns. It's like in Tai Chi Chuan you start with advanced patterns right away, and they take unpacking to understand.

[joko]

I personally find the Tai Chi Chuan patterns to be much more esoteric and hard to understand that Shaolin patterns. It's like in Tai Chi Chuan you start with advanced patterns right away, and they take unpacking to understand.

Interesting.
It is said that Tai Chi Chuan originated from Taoist, but is it not similar to the Buddha's teaching that to reach enlightenment we have to uncover our attachments one by one?

Joko

[KungFuJoe]

Well I am very attached to doing Strike the Tiger facing forward.

Or how about Tai Chi Chuan was Shaolin Kung-Fu... until the Taoists made it better!

All facetiousness aside though, I love the way Tai Chi reveals a little bit more every day. A year ago I actually thought I understood the patterns fairly well... now I know better. My form is slowly getting more aggressive. I think that in another year or two, it will be almost unrecognizable as Yang Tai Chi.

I few months ago I posted a thread about my feeling that Tai Chi Chuan wasn't yang enough. That really isn't true. It's the practitioners that aren't yang enough. The style is fine.

My only criticism is that there isn't much ground fighting in Tai Chi that I've discovered... yet...