That was Zen, this is Tao!

[Sifu Stier]

I thought that it might be of interest to those who regularly post here to do a bit of comparative analysis between these two spiritual philosophies as it appears that most of us have some experience with practices stemming from both systems. If this appeals to you, please post your interest here and I will gladly share a few things from the mountain of notations I have taken at the feet of my Masters regarding this topic.

[chiron]

small me understands zen, to be expressing your being fully and the tao is that black canvas of indescribability sponsoring every movement . I've got loads of questions! to be expressive we have to be fully unashamed, without guilt regret or fear of reputation, spontaneous, open, and fully trusting. what are the common conditions we need to free our minds of to be in this state? where do we commonly get stuck?, how do we become a concious witness, unattatched to preferences or dislikes so as to blend with the flow of the tao?
what things do you find yourself sacrificing to enter into existence..?
are there layers of letting go? how are they symbolised ? aaaaaaagggggrrhhhh. i know devotion is a personal discovery and so is truth..... but what have you discovered?! lol selva

[Andrew]

Sifu Stier - I am intrigued and look forward to reading your comments and comparison.

Andrew

[cnholmes]

Sifu Stier,

Yes, please do share with us. I'm very interested. I don't post much on these subjects because I hardly know anything.

Thanks,
Chris.

[barrys]

Sifu Stier,

I would really appreciate you sharing what you have learned.

My experience of transmission of the Tao is from Raymond Smullyan's book - The Tao is silent. What I took away from that book is the joy of freedom and his humour. In it he has a conversation between God and a man about the nature of free will. The man asking to have it taken away from him and God bemusedly explaining that it was the greatest gift he had given.

My experience of the explanation of Zen is from Alan Watt's book "The way of Zen". The first section is an exposition on Tao. What I took away from this book was the provisional nature of the way I look at the world. The measurement, the distinctions, making objects seperate from actions. Slowly it seeps in.

So, combining my experience of Tao and Zen - a joy in experiencing the world in new ways. I am feeling very full of joy and energy this morning - slowly being able to stand it.

Best,

Barry

[Zen R Ridge]

TaoBuddhist

Hi Sifu Stier

I am very excited that you have started this thread, i am interested in both faiths, i began with Zen about 6 years ago and to sum it up in one word it would be "simple".

Tao i do not have such an understanding of, but i have learnt quite abit especially since i first became interested in Tai Chi Chuan, 3 years ago.

I have always been one who is skeptical and to put it blunt, i don't believe in a "god", per say, or even more than one god. I believe in Energy which the Tao, despite having a belief in gods, go into great detail, how everything works in a circular motion, being born, dying and returning to the cosmos to then be reformed as whatever is required.

I hope i haven't gone way off here but this is one of the ideals which has stuck with me for a long time.

Metta

Zen

[Sifu Stier]

A good starting point here is to remember that Taoism is a uniquely Chinese spiritual philosophy born of the Chinese observation of Nature and the Cosmos. It was then shaped and expanded to associate the Natural Laws and Cosmic Forces observed with everything in human life experience right down to the most simple and seemingly insignificant event. Tao was seen as The Way of Heaven Expressed in Nature. The Presence of an Intelligent Creator was acknowledged, but never limited by rigid definition. How can we
define or describe the Infinite Source of All-That-Is? Such is impossible! So instead, the attributes of this Source were searched out in the natural world of Its creation.

In this way, for example, it was observed and documented that virtually everything and everyone expresses repeated cycles of activity. The change
of Seasons was marked by Equinox and Solstice points which could be predicted even to the hour of the day. The Sunrise and Sunset points also repeated with rhythmical cyclicity. Likewise for the Phases of the Moon and the Transit of the Celestial Bodies across the nightime sky. Hence, all of life
seemed to be Circular and Rhythmical.

Additionally, everything in Nature seemed always to flow through these Cycles and Rhythms with non-resistance and unwavering stability. When the time is right in Spring, the leaves and flowers magically appear without a struggle or care, and when the time arrives in Autumn and Fall, the trees shed their leaves and the flowers will have retired again until the next cycle is ready to begin. Only humans, through the misdirected, improper use of their intellects insist on 'going against the flow' or 'swimming upstream' instead of living in harmony with natural laws and principles.

More to come later. I hope this is received as a good start!

[Andrew]

Indeed a nice start Sifu Stier. I am looking forward to the next instalment.

Andrew

[barrys]

Sifu Stier,

Thank you.

Barry

[chiron]

Cool! What is the natrual cycle of winter?

[Sifu Stier]

Re: Winter

Hello selva:

From the Taoist point of view, the Winter Season is the period of time between the Winter Solstice and the Vernal (Spring) Equinox. The Winter Solstice usually occurs around December 21, and the Vernal Equinox usually occurs around March 21 every year. So, this period of three months runs from the shortest day of the year, i.e. the day with the fewest hours of sunlight, the Winter Solstice, until the next time when the number of daylight
hours is exactly equal to the number of darkness hours from sunset to sunrise the next morning, the Spring Equinox!

Traditionally, Taoists view the Winter Season as a time of stillness in Nature when plants and some animals become dormant until Springtime, like bear hibernation, and a time when
the weather in most places is either cool and rainy, or frigidly cold with snow and ice. The observed quietness in Nature at this time of the year, and the obvious decrease in activity among living things of every variety, inspired the Ancient Ones to conclude that humans should become less active at this time as well. Thus, they deliberately chose to be less active away from home during this season, and pursued quiet endeavors such as meditation and contemplative prayer, playing musical instruments, poetry writing, spiritual reading, artwork or crafts, and so forth. This was also seen as a time to harmonize with nature by consciously breathing more slowly, thinking and analyzing less, eating less, and generally slowing down one's lifestyle. In this way, one can calmly reflect on the experiences and achievements of the previous year in order to benefit from lessons learned through them, and be prepared to be 're-born' again in the Spring to begin a fresh life cycle!

[chiron]

wow! right off to retreat then! knowledge is mad. It's totally true that western life knows nada about that sort of thing let alone pay nature any attention. no wonder everyones crazy and deppressed. european spiritual history seems so bland compared, Are there cycles in the tao for human ignorance?! when everythings going well and we just f**k it all up for no reason. How is it possible for us to go against the tao if we're made of it? Does everything work in cycles? and theres no way we're going to all become a big ball of light one day?

[Black Hole]

Long May You Run

Sifu Stier,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. My knowledge on Taoism is very limited and I have never met aTaoist master before, therefore your presence here is a real blessing.
May I ask you one question about the nature of humans?Since we all are also products of the Nature, why then we are going against the flow?.Is it because we are following the nature of self-vanishment like the autumn leaves in order to create or to prepare for a new civilisation? Why do we behave so unnaturally?
Thank you very much and I look forward to reading your next posts.

[Sifu Stier]

Excellent question, BlackHole! It would seem that as 'civilized' human society
moves ever farther away from any sense of communion with Nature, the tendency to manifest Life unnaturally becomes more common everywhere. In the early years of my childhood, for example, the farmstead had no indoor running water, so it had to be carried into the house in large buckets. There was no central heating and air-conditioning, so many, many cords of firewood had to be cut, split, stacked, and carried in to feed the woddburning
stoves. Talk about a great workout! A large garden behind the house grew veggies and produce. Apple and pear trees surrounded the garden to provide fruit for eating, baking, and preserving. Eggs came from the yard-birds. Milk came from the cows. Sheep provided meat and wool for socks, sweaters, shawls, and so forth. The point of all that is that a lifestyle like that is very closely connested to Nature. The weather determines in great part when you can plant and harvest, and how good the harvest will be. A close connection with the soil and earth is an everyday experience. Sounds alot different from how most of us live today, doesn't it? But even so, we can choose to walk in the woods or a nearby park, choose to exercise outdoors, choose to grow a little flower garden, put birdhouses and seed out to attract birds, choose to go out late at night to look at the stars. There is always some way to stay connected with Nature if we choose to do so. I encourage everyone to get off the couch, turn off the TV, get outside to re-connect with the Source of All-That-Is!

[Black Hole]

Sifu Stier,

Thank you for your prompt reply!
Is our "unnatural " behaviour not a part of one of the many Cycles of Life, nl the end of this civilisation and the born of a new one? Even if we all live and behave naturally in utopic world, the life on this planet will come to an end when our solar power is exhausted and .....a new sun will be born somewhere.