Powerful Masters?

[MoMoJuice]

Hello everyone,

In Master Jou Tsung Hwa's excellent book "The Dao of Taijiquan", he says that a true expert in taijiquan can show tremendous power just by standing still. When others only touch his or her body, they are thrown a few feet away.

I have read about some masters who supposidly could do this. One of them was master Hong Junsheng (1907-1996), 18th generation master of Chen Style Taijiquan. He trained under the great master Chen Fake for 15 years.

Has any of you guys seen a master who can demonstrate this ability? And how many years of dedicated practice will a person need to be able to reach such a high level of skill?

Thank You.
Respectfully,
MoMo.

[shaolin_mike]

I do not know about that but i do know for a fact that Taiji masters have great force and skill. I met a young (well he was about 26) Taiji master once from china and he kindly gave me some lessons before he had to go abroad. One thing that amazed me was that he had such great balance, one time he asked me to try push him over and he would not move. i was really shoving and using my arms and legs to try knock him over but he did not move at all. And then he amazed me even more by lifting one leg and continuing to resist me only standing on one leg.

If a relatively young taichi master can achieve this i wonder what an old master who has trained many years will achieve...

[MoMoJuice]

Hi Shaolin Mike,

Thank you for the interesting account. I do believe that these feats are possible, I just haven't seen it in real life and that's why I was asking.

I do hope more people will share their accounts about meeting masters with similar skills and abilities.

Take care,
MoMo.

[Charles David]

A Quick Question

Dear Momo,

Out of curiousity, have you had the opportunity to meet Sifu Wong?

[MarcusL]

Balance has been an acquired skill for me. I used to be REALLY clumsy, and I couldn't stand on one leg without my hand resting against the wall as I exercised. I gradually removed fingers, one at a time, until I could balance with a single finger on the wall - then none.

As for not being moved, my current teacher in Salem demonstrated this skill and explained his method. He encouraged us to try it, and when we are pushed, to move our root down by relaxing down. I have tried this, and it really works. Standing on one leg, I cannot be pushed over. The harder they push, the more I relax down, and the more stable I become. The other person uses far more energy than I do - I simply redirect their energy into the ground.

However (you knew this was coming, because I'm a novice at this), I can only do this when the person applies and releases the pressure smoothly. I am not sufficiently developed to manage moving force, strikes, or fa jing. I have much practice ahead of me.

Thank you for letting me share,

Marcus

[MoMoJuice]

Dear Momo,
Out of curiousity, have you had the opportunity to meet Sifu Wong?

Dear cha muir,

Sifu was kind enough to accept me twice to his Intensive Chi Kung course in Malaysia, the last time I was there was 4 months ago in August.

Taking the first Intensive course with Sifu 2 years ago chenged my life forever. I can not say enough how thankful I am to Sifu for teaching these great arts to us. It is a great privilege and honor to have learned from him.

Oops, we are going of topic, so I'll just stop here

MarcusL,

It's nice to see that you have great balance now. Also, I don't think I really understand what you mean by saying "relaxing down". Do you mean like relaxing at the knees for example?

Thank you,
MoMo.

[Antidote]

I'm sure Cha Muir will explain it better, but relaxing down just mean that, youwill understand if you don't think about it, just do it.

Relaxing down means that when relax internaly and externaly and when you do this in tai chi stance for example you will notice your chi sinking down to your dantien and your legs making your stance solid and your head fresh.
"Top light, Heavy Bottom"
You can enhance this with your mind. Gently lead chi down, sinking in your dantien and your legs, this must be done very gently, just a gentle though, if you can't do it, don't force it. You can aplly this to many stances.

Hope this helps

Blessings

Antidote

[Ovidius]

Bamboo kuning empty force or just fakery?

Bamboo kuning is a form of Pentjak Silat, Indonesian martial art. Here is something to elaborate: http://www.martrix.org/Bamboo%20Kuni...ic%20force.wmv

I was just wondering what is the probability in real life of six women attacking a man who has just finished the needed practices... I think we should measure the value of skill by the fact that it can applied to everyone and in any time, and not just to selected people, who are known to be sensitive to it, and when the performer is perfectly attuned. This is what bothers me on these so called empty force demonstrations.

[MoMoJuice]

Dear Ovidius,

I just checked out the link that you posted. Not sure, but it seems fake to me. When it comes to empty force I personaly will only believe in it if someone demonstrates it on me

Though I know for a fact that Chi can be directed from one person to another, empty force and the ability to push someone flying backwards with chi is another story.

Shaolin Wahnam Instructors can correct me if I'm wrong, I think Sifu says that empty force is real, but that he has never met someone with this skill.

Here is a website of a master (Shen Hongxun) who claims to posses empty force skill and teaches it: http://www.buqi.net/gb/index.html

I read about a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner who went to meet Shen Hongxun and have empty force demonstrated on him. Master Shen stood there in defensive mode and the student walked to him (he was holding a jug of water behind his back) and spilled the water on Shen's head. That must have been really embarrassing. I think that story happened more than five years ago, but his website is still up talking about empty force and stuff.

I guess some people just won't quit

Laterz,
MoMo.

[Ovidius]

Easy knockouts, real or not?

Hey Momo, and thanks for the link. I hope that the water was not hot when it spilled on Master Shen!

Grandmaster Timo Kauhanen (6th dan in Ryukyu-Kempo) who actually lives less than 50km from where I am now, claims to have an ability to knockout person without touching. He has done it couple of times on TV. Here you can see him in action, although mostly with touching techniques: http://www.kyushojutsu.com/cgi-bin/ko/ko.cgi

In the end part of first video there is a short demonstration of no-touch technique. The "Incapasitate" video is interesting What ever happens to these people looks very real to me, but also far from real life situations, since these opponents are quite passive even at the beginning. Much like waiting something to happen. Also the fact that the opponents are his students is suspicious and very far from real life "queuing for a hot sausage at 4AM and a horde of big bullies puts their best to humiliate you" situation.

His homepage is http://www.kyushojutsu.com/

[Charles David]

Dear Momo

Dear Momo,

Indeed I remember now your previous posts, excuse me for my lapse of memory.

I read a short while ago on the forum of Darryl's experience of being sent flying by a blast from Sifu's Chi after having given him a 'bear hug'. I don't remember now where I read this but if I find it I will post the link. Perhaps one of our other readers will know where to find it.

As far as 'empty force', I'm not experienced with this concept so can have no comment.

Good luck in your search.

[MoMoJuice]

Dear Momo,
Indeed I remember now your previous posts, excuse me for my lapse of memory.

I read a short while ago on the forum of Darryl's experience of being sent flying by a blast from Sifu's Chi after having given him a 'bear hug'. I don't remember now where I read this but if I find it I will post the link. Perhaps one of our other readers will know where to find it.

As far as 'empty force', I'm not experienced with this concept so can have no comment.

Good luck in your search.

Dear cha muir,

I'm new to the forum anyway, and you are welcome to ask me anything anytime, even if you asked the same question yesterday

If Darryl said that it happened, then I guess it's true. I can not say anythying about Sifu's (great) Kung Fu abilities because I have never seen him do any Kung Fu. During the Chi Kung courses some students did nag Sifu about showing us some Kung Fu moves, he always refused saying that we are learning Chi Kung.

I would like to add that you said "bear hug" which means Darryl was touching Sifu, but if he was sent flying in that way then that answers my question at the beginning of the thread about touching a Master and falling to the ground.

If Sifu Darryl decides to direct us towards his post or to clarify this, then it would be great.

Thank you cha muir, good luck to you too, have a nice day...

MoMo.

[Charles David]

Salut

Dear Momo,

During the Chi Kung intensive in Sabah this July, we had the great pleasure of several kung fu demonstrations from Sifu.

Personally, after experiencing Sifu's energy, at a short distance, he sent me onto another planet. Talk about getting sent flying!

In a different world now,
My thoughts going out to you,

[Sifu Stier]

Soothe or Shock?

In response to MoMo's initial post in this thread, the 'energy dynamics' which one experiences and expresses at higher levels of skill in the Internal Arts can
manifest in a number of different ways according to the intention of the Master. Through long time training in authentic methods of Chi-Kung, Tai-Chi Chuan, Pa-Kua Chang, Hsing-Yi Chuan, and other internal styles of Kung-fu, both volume and intensity of one's intrinsic energy (chi) are increased dramatically.

Normal training protocols in these styles initially focus on awakening, circulating, refining, conserving and storing chi internally, as well as 'opening' the channels and collaterals of energy transport and 'clearing' the major energy storage depots, i.e. 'acupuncture points'. Conscious and deliberate attempts are made from the outset to 'center' the chi at lower Tan-Tien, and then 'ground' the energy to the feet, 'rooting' it there like an invisible energy cord extending to the center of the earth.

In spite of such efforts, as the overall volume of Chi increases, and its qualitative intensity magnifies, overflow from Tan-Tien is common. Most Master Practitioners require increasingly more seated meditation and/or standing practice to keep the chi 'disciplined' so that it doesn't flow upward and outward to the hands at full volume all the time. A 'psychic' volume and
tone control has to be mentally installed to regulate the quantity and intensity of the outgoing energy. Otherwise, one can experience intense electrical shocks when contacting anything made of metal, and can unintentionally emit dramatic electrical discharges when merely touching others. But once the energy is grounded and regulated it can be gently emitted from the hands and fingers as a warm, soothing, healing energy, or it can be discharged in greater volume at specific points to disable an enemy
when fighting. When the the chi is intended to flow freely and forcefully to the extremities, and to the surface of the body for defensive 'feeling' (wei-chi), anyone making physical contact at that time will be repelled away as if touched by a 'live' or 'hot' electrical wire. You will probably find as I did that such individuals who possess these skills are much more enjoyable as friends and healers than they are as adversaries and enemies!

[Ovidius]

Nonverbal communication

anyone making physical contact at that time will be repelled away as if touched by a 'live' or 'hot' electrical wire.

Sifu Stier, much thanks for the info. It brought up one question: what about touching as a friend or lover? I mean that if all people are repelled away, then the life of such person is doomed to be spent alone. As we know, touching has a big role in everyday nonverbal communication.