Can a disciple surpass his sifu?

[Mark A]

Proffessional Warriors

Hey Guys,
Just wanted to give a few comments. It seems that a lot of people these days are talking about the comparison of proffessional athletes and martial artists compared to martial artists of old.

I dont know how many chinese people you have met but some of them are huge!! You have to remember that China covers a lot ground and there is a lot of body types as well.

One of the things I did want to talk about is that a lot of peolple in historic China were proffessional Warriors and Martial Artists. They would have to have trained every day to keep there game sharp. Also they would have to have been good to stay alive in battle Scenarios. If you can imagine a battle lasting say pver two hours or days, say if they were in a castle and under siege etc.

Comparing Nutrition.These days athletes watch there diet and have proffessional input. At the temple they would have done the same. When the martial monks were training they would have had input from the healers etc it has been documented that they used special herbs to help promote health and fitness for the warrior monks. Considering that the Shaolin Temple had been around 1500 years you can garauntee that they would have accumalted a lot of knowledge about herbs and nutrition.

ok that is my input, But if we are going to carry on this discussion then maybe we should start another thread so we dont get lost from the original

Mark

[Guest]

Jeet Kune Do worked for him, but yeah, I definitely have to wonder what else he could have done with traditional training. I also wonder how he would have fared against his former teachers without that traditional training. Just a thought.


Molly

I heard in one of the many documentaries about him that he offered a sum of money to Grandmaster Yip Man(or is it Ip Man i'm not sure?) so that Bruce could be taught the rest of the system.

Grandmaster Yip Man took this as an insult as Bruce also wanted to record it on film and was supposedly disrespectful towards his Sifu in the way he asked.

That's what I heard anyway.

Just thought i'd mention it

Ta ra Sham.

[salurian]

Have heared this rumor, also. But like most things, no one has confirmed it.
It´s all the time the same. Look an different Wing Tsun organisations. One is doing public relation with the saying that BL did WT, the other ones doing it by claiming that he didn´t learn all and only learning this style will be THE ONE who can beat all.

@Molly: Do you know how deep BL understanding of the style was? I don´t know. Do you know? How long do need to finish your martial arts training?
By the way: Darth Vader rules

Think you never finish your training and you will never stop learning.
I have spoken to a 86 year old grandmaster, who is doing martial arts since 80 years. He told me that he still is learning and discovering the art. So when he will finish his training? Think about that.

I think it´s nothing wrong with going your own way. And that is what BL did.

But this is not the topic of the thread. I just wanted to highlight some things about BL which has said here and which in my opinion are missunderstood.

Think BL has surpassed himself.

Peace!

Tobi

[Antonius]

@Molly: Do you know how deep BL understanding of the style was? I don´t know. Do you know? How long do need to finish your martial arts training?

My Wing Chun colleagues tell me that Bruce Lee's Wing Chun was at a low level. There are some videos of Bruce doing chi-sao. I hear that his chi-sai was not even at what we would consider a black-belt level in other arts.

[Michael Durkin]

Finishing / Completing training

@Molly: Do you know how deep BL understanding of the style was? I don´t know. Do you know? How long do need to finish your martial arts training?
By the way: Darth Vader rules

Think you never finish your training and you will never stop learning.
I have spoken to a 86 year old grandmaster, who is doing martial arts since 80 years. He told me that he still is learning and discovering the art. So when he will finish his training? Think about that.

With respect to the 86 year old Grandmaster, I agree that the nature of some arts are open ended, in that you can spend lifetimes developing. But the use of the word finish can be misinterpreted here in the sense of finishing ones training.

I feel you can finish a part of your training in a system, and this could be considered perhaps the base/intermediate/advanced level that you finish/complete. But there can also be intermediate levels where practitioners can also finish/complete. I think when people are referring to Bruce Lee as not finishing his training, I think they are saying that he didn't cover all of the base/intermediate material.

Take our Shaolin Wahnam Kung Fu Training Program for example. If a student left our school at level 7 for example, they wouldn't be considered as finishing/completing the standard 12 level program (reaching the last few levels in our program actually means the real beginning of our training, training that can continue for many years like the 86 year old Grandmaster that was mentioned).

But even if a student of Shaolin Wahnam reached level 12, and left, it would still be subjective as to whether they had completed their training depending on the circumstances. But in general, we would say that student had finished/completed the standard training, something which I think people are suggesting Bruce Lee didn't do.

As to surpassing ones Sifu, I consider finishing/completing the standard training program as a basic requirement before even coming close to surpassing ones Sifu. In fact, its just the beginning.

[Baguamonk1]

Bruce Lee's understand of WC, in my opinion, was not incomplete...How many of us meditate, and work out, train (he trained 3x a day, with a strict hard regimen), write, theorize, discover, etc. as much as he did? I think we would be lucky to do as he did in the final years of his life in just one lifetime!! Just consistently training the same BASICS over and over, and stopping to intectually contemplate every once in a while, will give amazing results in whatever yo uare doing.

Just because he didn't stay and learn from some old master for 40 years, doesn't mean he did not have a grasp of his art. In fact, his fighting prowness or reputation could not have succeeded without the "grasp" of CMA in general.Again, when I first started getting heavily into Shaolin (or CMA in general) I thought it was the answer to most questions, I was amazed at how "deep" and awesome it all was. I thought Bruce was wrong, not because of my own analyzations necessarily, but because of my teachers opinions on martial arts. As I read more of his essays, books, interviews etc. I realized that I misinterpreted what he was saying, and what ALOT of other people were saying. He never criticized tradtional martial artists for being "traditional" he criticized them for specific ridiculous attitudes. Which grew out of the times of modern china and its culture.

Such as (his word) ornamentation of "Techniques" and forms (like old wushu). Relying on stylistic boundries as if it were seperate religions. Hard Chi gong tricks (Not methods). In fact I too am ashamed by this, I used to think hard chi gong tricks were incredible, evidence of near-supernatural power. It is sad to know that most of it are simply "physics" tricks.Of course real martial artists don't use hard chi gong for "tricks." Wasting time when near supernatural abilities when learning how to defend yourself in the most direct way is more efficient. And as for spiritual cultivation, he was a HUGE advocator of this in the martial arts. Especially on the core elements of taoism, which in my opinion is a way of expressing "personal freedom." Wether its in spirit, mind, or body.To know that CMA is riddled with just as much mysticism, and lack of knowledge of kung fu in general by the chinese population as with western. You have no idea how many modern chinese men/women I've met (even some who practiced taichi/kung fu) said "I don't believe in Chi." Mostly because they are just as fed up with the esoteric, old school mystical way of describing these things (which make these methods seem supernatural) as many other people are.

Also as per Chuck Liddel argument, I wasn't trying to say that UFC or MMA was the end-all-be-all to fighting. Because its not. He isn't a warrior who "lives by the sword" and no I could not imagine him swinging a halbred...But I couldn't imagine any of us doing the same thing..actually "living by the sword." I dont think any of us do, we just don't live in that kind of time period. Even if we did live in a war-time period, it would be with guns and other detached methods of killing/fighting.

Also my criticisms towards CMA challenges and fights are ONLY directed to the last century, when CMA and chinese culture in general was falling apart due to the various economic and political circumstances.

[Molly]

Ahoy Maties,

@Molly: Do you know how deep BL understanding of the
style was? I don´t know. Do you know? How long do need to finish your martial arts training?
By the way: Darth Vader rules

No way dude, I'm so not a dark-sider anymore .
I'm not a huge Bruce Leeophile, so I don't really know all his bio. But I think I know all I need to know in the context of this argument. Bottom line is, regardless of how good a fighter he was, or how well he was able to absord Yip Man's teachings, he only studied with him for five years or so before leaving. That's not a long time to learn any style before making your own modifications to it. How many of you out there have been studying with Sifu for five years or more? Do any of you feel able or ready to change anything you've learned from him? I haven't had the pleasure of being Sifu's student for that long, but I sincerely doubt I'll be modifying anything I've learned in five years' time.
I just don't think that's enough time for training and reflecting to start changing things (which is essentially saying you know better than your master). Even if you train and meditate 3 times a day, okay that's diligent, but that's diligent training based on shallow understanding of your system. It doesn't matter if you train for 8+ hours a day. If you're training at a lower level, you're training at a lower level and your results are as such. Of course, Bruce Lee had a good grasp on Wing Chun, he was a good fighter. It showed. But whether or not his grasp was good enough to be changing the teachings of his master and his system remains questionable to me.
But hey! None of this stops me from having Bruce Lee air freshener dangling from the rearview mirror of my car! Alright, off to work.
Molly

[Baguamonk1]

That was just what he wanted to do, that was his "path." If he had not taken it, he would NOT be who he was today, or made the impact he did. Five years is plenty of time to at least become somewhat adept,especially for someone who is a natural at it. There are ALWAYS students who learn faster, even sometimes 2x-3x faster than others.As Mr. Ma said, it there ARE "gifted" students, but that doesn't mean that they can neglect training. I know that in five years I could make serious progress, but then again they used to call me the "old kid" because I talked like I was an old guy (in terms of theory application) and the fact that I started studying IMA when most other guys my age were still in their TKD/Karate days. Not bragging, just saying that people have different paths and ways of interpreting/following arts.

He didn't make modifications to Wing Chung, he simply evolved from his current understanding of it and sort of broke free from it. Not that its necessarily a good thing, I'm sure there would of been great benefits from learning WC his whole life..but as you can see he didn't have that much time. And on top of that it would of probably prevented him from contributing what he did, and learning from various taoist philosophies/arts (IMA).

IMA is probably something that I will continue learning rest of my life, but 5 years should be enough to make some serious progress, with consistent practice, if you are able to handle it that is. Some people don't get it and they give up, or it takes them years upon years. But some people advance rather quickly. My teacher also doesn't purposefully hide "secrets" from us, but he will tell us and go into depth about things when we are ready for it.

[subclock]

the depth to be useful in all situations

Hi Baguamonk1 ,

Hope you are well . This is an interesting conversation even though it has veered away from the topic . Although I think that the topic at hand has already been explored . My opinion is that you cannot answer this question in a general sense . This would be assumptive thinking . I think that you have surpassed your Sifu when he tells you that you have surpassed him ( or her ) It is something any good Sifu should proudly acknowledge .

Bruce Lee's understand of WC, in my opinion, was not incomplete...

I don't think I know enough about WingChun to know the answer myself . What makes you think his understanding of WC was complete ?

How many of us meditate, and work out, train (he trained 3x a day, with a strict hard regimen), write, theorize, discover, etc. as much as he did?

I think this is where I see problems . I have seen Bruce Lee performing his style and I am very impressed . He is at the very least , an amazing fighter ( not to mention his great charisma ) . But I have seen a lot of videos of other JKD practitioners and something seems to be missing .
I think they leave a lot of openings in their attacks ( Safety First ) . Some of these guys are going to fall short when they really have to defend themselves with their art ( of course this statement applies to a lot of Shaolin Kung Fu practitioners and other arts as well ) .

I think you bring up a very important point . Bruce Lee was extremely dedicated to his training . From what I have seen on Documentaries, he trained basically all day long . When he wasn't training he was writing or researching his JKD philosophy . Pretty intense . I am unfortunately not that dedicated ( nor do I have that much time to dedicate ) . I also think most of the world is not really going to be able to train with such an intense routine and not eventually give up or injure themselves . Maybe I am a wuss

The average working person is only going to be able to go train at their School about 1 - 3 times a week for about 1-2 hours a session . Some of them will also train on their own, but most people just find they don't have the time . I am not sure how effective the training is in smaller, more diluted doses .

Bruce Lee was well known for his incredible speed and the ability to strike hard with small movements . His speed made it so that most other people could not expoit his openings even if they see them, because he was so well trained in his techniques . This might have been a blessing as well as a curse in my opinion ;
He trained so intensely and often that he was simply to fast and powerful for most people to compete . On the other hand, you could say he over-trained and this constant strain on his internal organs might have eventually led to his tragic death .

So , I think it is always important in a way to be able to seperate the MAN and the ART in your mind . JKD worked for Bruce but will it work for me ? I think that is where the advise to " not be smarter than the masters " comes in . It is not some arrogant saying to keep people from improving their Art . Traditional Shaolin Kung Fu can help almost any person from all walks of life in almost any health/spiritual/mental condition and help them according to their specific needs . That is why there are so many techniques and arts within the art itself ( also why it is not possible or necessary to learn it all ) . The big picture is that it has something for every need and situation .

Bruce Lee often said that people must also get their own 'feel' for JKD so that it suites their personal needs . This is a good ambition but I think the problem is that you are kind of left to fumble around till you arrive at this 'feeling' . So one could say that the system does not go 'deep' enough .

Ultimately each person has to decide what they think is best for them . For some people it is better to go somewhere once a week and let of steam doing Tai Chi Dance . I don't judge these people as long as they are enjoying themselves . Life is too short to get into these huge philosophical debates about this art is better than that art and anyways who of us can judge what is better for each person . For me Shaolinquan is the best art in the world . There is no competition as far as I am concerned . This opinion is based on how well Shaolin fits in with my life and how it has helped me to achieve my aims and goals . It is a square block in a square hole . It just fits

I do admire Bruce Lee for trying to go beyond just the physical and creating a system with a spiritual philosophy as well as a combat philosophy . It is something I will probably never feel qualified to do . JKD , it's just not for me

Best Wishes ,
Kevin

p.s Sorry to the moderators about all this 'off topic talk' . Feel free to fling this post to a better place if you think it is needed .

[Baguamonk1]

I don't mean "complete" but certainly not totally "incomplete." I think he had the basics down, and that is all that matters to me. For other people, it might matter that he didn't learn all the sets etc.

I agree that the cause of his death was over-training and improperly training internal methods (he got seriously into them but kept them pretty secret). He got carried away with his own "power."

If you have martial arts at your heart, and you are a good fighter, it doesn't really matter wether you study for 30 years the same art or achieve black belt. He never got a black belt, and honestly the ones I got in the past mean practically nothing...Certificates, medals, all that..doesn't matter, I dont' give a crap about it. Especially because they are usually awarded for things that have nothing to do with actual martial arts..I have met some high degree blackbelts in karate that truly astounded me..Not because they were so good but were missing something. Usually their form practice consists of loud yelling, flexing their muscles as hard as they can, and attempt to "physically" show power. But as I have learned, yelling real loud and flexing your muscles as you do a movement has barely anything to do with martial power. I KNOW there are real JMA masters, who are relaxed and maters of their craft. But what I see here in the states by so called "masters" who study for over 20 years is dissapointing.

The reason I can relate to him is for many reasons, like him I am a loner. I always appreciate and respect my teacher the most I can (in this case he was more of a loner). But I learn by having my own "mind." I do not try to emulate my teacher, or blindly follow everything, but I listen, and I apply. I find out my own uses in both real life and in the martial world. Studying for 15 years the same art will lead to perfection of sorts, but once you realize that all martial arts are pretty much the same, and consists of the same "internal stuff" it doesn't matter so long as you always practice, are evolving, and have it at the center of your soul. It becomes inseperable from you, instead if how people treat it often as a "seperate thing" something to do in afternoons for personal recreational purposes. From this realization learning other forms of martial arts becomes increasingly easy, if you build a strong athletic/physical base..you can learn all sorts of more external arts and apply them if you are skilled enough. If you build a strong internal base, then you will easily be able to adapt and learn other IMA's, and their small differences from eachother. Why do you think Wushu people can learn the outer form of almost any CMA art so easily?? Because they have a strong base, and they almost all share the same stances/methods. It no longer is something that becomes dependent on "muscle memory" or memorizing set patterns, it becomes something natural, as it should be.

Depending on how your life is going, it will reflect on your outlook on martial arts, and your practice. The reverse also applies.

Also I agree, JKD should NOT be a seperate martial art. I said it works as a philosophy because its about formlessness based of taoist concepts. Clearly creating an "art" based off of his own movements/techniques contradicts completely. People trying to emulate him..just doesn't work. Who he was in his movies was way different than the person he was in real life. No doubt he was hot-headed, but he was also born to do what he did.

I dont' see it as "surpassing your sifu" it also depends on what you are talking about...If you are talking about surpassing sifu based on the content that you learn from his school..perhaps not. Perhaps you won't one day perform the form or apply his applications as good as him, perhaps you will. But maybe you become a better, more well roudned person, maybe you surpass him by becoming a better fighter. Understanding things that he might not even have begun to contemplate. I am of firm "belief" that there is both old and new souls. I always meet people who seem to have no internal "direction" or even any spiritual wisdom. And I wonder, how is it that I was born like this? Or other people of similar nature to me. I feel that there is more than just "physical experience." Perhaps I was a Shaolin Monk in another life or something Sometimes your teacher can be good within the context of his craft..but perhaps one day you will surpass him as a person. Its all relative, I don't see it as "surpassing" anymore, I see it as simply going off in your own path, your own direction.And while doing this, feeling a prevaling sense of goodness, of passion and direction, even if you don't know where you are going.

What I need to find, is someone like Liu Hung Chieh. A recluse, taoist master or something Someone I could TRULY learn from. I sometimes feel like that young girl in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon..., and trust me, that is NOT a good thing.

[Molly]

Passing on a legacy

I know I said before that Bruce Lee isn't necessarily the best example for this thread, but now I'm wondering if he isn't a relevant example after all. For me, Bruce is relevant because he is an example of somebody who broke away from his system without complete knowledge of it and created his own system/philosophy/whatever you want to call it. For me, he's an example of how a disciple can't surpass his sifu without the proper training. This is strictly my own personal opinion here, as I know little of Yip Man's fighting abilities and couldn't say who would come out on top were they to go toe to toe. But my biggest issue with Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do is that we've yet to see one of his students surpass him. I've no doubt Dan Inosanto is a great fighter but is he better than Bruce? I don't know. The Shaolin arts have survived as long as they have because it's a complete system which give the practicioner physical, mental, and emotional strength, and spiritual enlightenment if they are ready. These traditions have survived because generations of worthy students have trained diligently and many surpassed their own sifus. For hundreds of years. Granted, JKD hasn't been around for nearly as long, but personally, I don't believe we'll see Bruce Lee's tradition endure three, four, five generations down the line. Take care guys.
Molly

[subclock]

I don't mean "complete" but certainly not totally "incomplete." I think he had the basics down, and that is all that matters to me. For other people, it might matter that he didn't learn all the sets etc.

I agree with you that Basics are very important and that a lot of Kung Fu practitioners place too much importance on learning techniques and sets ( and then equate that to skill ) .
Without a good foundation in the basics, your practise is doomed from the start . I don't know a lot about Wing Chun , but I do know that Stances are a very important part of the basics of Kung Fu in general . Didn't Bruce decide that the traditional stances were not necessary ?
I think that the traditional stances are vital to perform any Kung Fu correctly . They are very important when it comes to applying a lot of the Hand techniques as well . So if you leave out the stances some of the other techniques are not going to work anymore . To me it seems that once you have thrown out stances then it's just a matter of time before you start throwing out all sorts of other useful techniques thinking them to be too 'Flowery' or unrealistic .

At first I had to just trust in my Sifu when it came to stances . The first few times you try stances they feel strange . You feel like it is harder to move from these stances than from a regular standing position . Now I believe what my Sifu taught me because I have experienced those truths for myself .

If I think back to all the times my training partner ( and other people ) have beaten me or thrown me down, it was mainly because of one or more of these reasons :

1) I was not relaxed
2) My stances were too heavy
3) My stances were too light
4) I had a sloppy stance

Then there are those times when I was able to apply the technique so well I felt like something else was moving me . This was mainly because :

1) I was relaxed
2) I used solid stances and good footwork

So for me throwing out Stances IS throwing out the basics of Kung Fu . Maybe this does not apply to Wing Chun ( I wouldn't know ) . What do you think ?

Usually their form practice consists of loud yelling, flexing their muscles as hard as they can, and attempt to "physically" show power.

Sounds like what I see in my country too

Who he was in his movies was way different than the person he was in real life.

Just so you know I am aware of that . I don't look at his films and judge his Kung Fu based on that . That would be very silly of me

It becomes inseperable from you, instead if how people treat it often as a "seperate thing" something to do in afternoons for personal recreational purposes.

OK I practise every day, but that doesn't mean I think everyone else needs to do the same . Different people have different lives and goals and needs . For some people training every day is no good . They just need to blow of steam and do some exercise and be social once a week . Nothing wrong with that ( as long as the Sifu doesn't pretend it is something that it isn't ) .

I dont' see it as "surpassing your sifu" it also depends on what you are talking about...If you are talking about surpassing sifu based on the content that you learn from his school..perhaps not. Perhaps you won't one day perform the form or apply his applications as good as him, perhaps you will. But maybe you become a better, more well roudned person, maybe you surpass him by becoming a better fighter. Understanding things that he might not even have begun to contemplate. I am of firm "belief" that there is both old and new souls. I always meet people who seem to have no internal "direction" or even any spiritual wisdom. And I wonder, how is it that I was born like this? Or other people of similar nature to me. I feel that there is more than just "physical experience." Perhaps I was a Shaolin Monk in another life or something Sometimes your teacher can be good within the context of his craft..but perhaps one day you will surpass him as a person. .

I agree with what you are saying . But , in Shaolin Kung Fu just being a good fighter is not good enough . It is the whole package . Do you fight well ? Are you a good person ? Are you relaxed even in stressfull times ? Does your Kung Fu training enhance the parts of your life that have nothing to do with Kung Fu ? Have you experienced the things the old masters have promised ? All these are important ( as I am sure you know ) .

But I think what is important to remember is that wondering whether or when you are going to surpass your Sifu is not good for your practise . I think it will make you driven in the wrong ways . " Do nothing and everything will be done for you " . I really like that saying and I think it applies here .

So in a way it is not an important question to ask . But , on the other hand I think it is important that some students should surpass the Sifu or at least come close to his/her level . This just makes sense if you want your Art to last many generations without eventually dying out . I mean one of the main reasons a Sifu teaches , is to continue his Art beyond his own lifetime, so that more will benefit than just those he can reach personally .

Why do you think Wushu people can learn the outer form of almost any CMA art so easily?? Because they have a strong base, and they almost all share the same stances/methods.

I would say that without the internal aspects their base is incomplete .

What I need to find, is someone like Liu Hung Chieh. A recluse, taoist master or something Someone I could TRULY learn from.

I think we have all thought like that at some time or another . I think the problem with this idea is that , in my opinion , recluse taoist masters are recluse for a reason . They are most likely going to turn you ( and me ) away. Maybe they will teach you if you stand outside their place without food for a few days, but, then again, what is to tell you they are a real master anyway .

Its all relative, I don't see it as "surpassing" anymore, I see it as simply going off in your own path, your own direction.And while doing this, feeling a prevaling sense of goodness, of passion and direction, even if you don't know where you are going

I think that is a more useful attitude to have, than trying to constantly become 'better' than your teacher .

Anyways, let me know your thoughts .

Hi Molly ,

But my biggest issue with Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do is that we've yet to see one of his students surpass him.

I don't see this happening personally .

But , I was thinking . Are there any of Sifu's students who have surpassed him ? As far as I know this has not happened . Although, I don't think that is as important ( although I am sure Sifu would be very pleased if it happened ) as making sure the essense of the art is transmitted each time it is taught .

Let me know what you think ?

Best Wishes ,
Kevin

[Antonius]

Are there any of Sifu's students who have surpassed him ?

Sifu has trained for 50 years. So ask me again in 2042.

[Molly]

Sifu has trained for 50 years. So ask me again in 2042.

Okay Anthony Siheng, I'll be sure to PM you in 36 years .

Hi Kevin,
I wasn't thinking of Sifu's students when I wrote that post. Obviously, none of us has surpassed him yet. I also don't think any of us train with the objective in mind of surpassing Sifu. I, like yourself and our brothers and sisters simply want to cultivate myself to my full potential and carry on the marvelous Shaolin tradition. Specifically, I was referring to the generations of practicioners before us who trained diligently and some of whom surpassed their sifus in some manner or another. It is because of their efforts that we are able to receive Sifu's teachings. It is also because of their efforts that these teachings are as of high a level as they are. This is one of the reasons that we begin and end our practice giving thanks not only to our master, but to all past masters before him who have helped to transmit these teachings down to us. As for all of us here, we're a work of art in progress .
I guess I would agree that surpassing one's sifu is not as important as making sure the essence of the art is transmitted. If that foundation is laid properly, it certainly opens an opportunity for future generations to perhaps attain if not surpass the master.
Now, I admit freely that I know little of JKD. Quite frankly, I don't need to know much more. I've my hands quite full with my own training in Shaolin kungfu and learning about JKD seems quite superfluous to me. My opinion of it is that as a philosophy, it worked great for Bruce Lee. But what of all the so-called JKD practicioners who merely kickbox when sparring? Granted, sadly, there are lots of kungfu practicioners that resort to the same thing. But I've seen far more Shaolin kungfu exponents show their fighting abilities than JKD exponents. So I think Bruce developed a philosophy that, though it served him well, does not necessarily transmit well to the next generation (is it really true they don't use stances? ). Of course, who knows what modifications Bruce Lee may have made in his philosophy if it weren't for his untimely death, but we'll never know now. Anyway, I hope that answers your questions Kevin. Take care.
Molly

[subclock]

Anthony Sihing ,

Sifu has trained for 50 years. So ask me again in 2042.

That Sifu has practised Kung Fu for twice as long as I have been alive is a humbling experience in itself

Molly ,

I agree

Best Wishes ,
Kevin