Full Contact Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan

[Ade]

Siheng Robin,

Excellent photos, thankyou for sharing.
Looking forward to hopefully attending some classes with you in the near future.

ttfn

Ade

[Ronan]

I like this picture series. It's a text book thrust kick. 'White Horse presents Hoof' in Shaolin Kungfu, not sure what the name in Taijiquan is.

In the first picture you can see quite clearly where Rob 'opens' his opponent's guard with his right hand. He then bring's his right knee up first before the kick. This is a very important part of a thrust kick, it insures maximum balance, power and accuracy.

Then in picture two, keeping the opponent's gaurd hand 'tamed' he delivers the kick on target and, as you can see, with enough force to send his opponent back a few metres.

Notice how Rob keeps his left foot rooted to the ground and doesn't come up onto his toes. He also keeps his balence and doesn't get pushed backwards from the force of his own kick pushing against the opponent.

Try and work out the physics of this. Rob doesn't move forwards or backwards and is on one leg, yet his opponent is sent back several feet. This shows that the kick wasn't delivered with body weight or momentum like your average kick boxing or Muay Thai thrust kick. Also bare in mind that Rob doesn't really train kicks very often and certainly doesn't kick sand bags. His main training is Stance training and Chi Kung to develope internal force.

Watch how even after the kick he keeps his guard and follows his opponent, although after the fight he admitted that he should have pressed the attack as soon as his kick hit the target, but I'm sure he won't forget that next time!

Best wishes

Ronan

[Antonius]

I'm glad he didn't press the attack after the kick. The pictures are much cooler this way. If he pressed the attack, then we wouldn't see the opponent sailing backwards after the kick.

Helluva kick, Robin. And caught on camera too! Hats off to you, bro.

[DarkCosmoz]

Hey Robin,

Considering that you used internal force against your opponent for the most part, do you think that your opponent will suffer any internal injuries in the future?

[joko]

I'm glad he didn't press the attack after the kick. The pictures are much cooler this way. If he pressed the attack, then we wouldn't see the opponent sailing backwards after the kick.

What is meant by press the attack after the kick?

Is it a follow-up attack, e.g. chasing the opponent with a pattern like Fierce Dragon Across Stream, or Hanging Golden Lotus? Or using Chen style: Immortal Pounds Mortar.

Joko

[Robin]

Cheers

Hi all,

Thanks for your kind words, just a quick one as Im on a lunch break.

Cheers Ronan, your post mentions pretty much all of the points I wanted to raise about the kick.All clearly pointing to the use of 'Internal Force' .

Dark Cosmos, you raise an interesting point in regards to damage that may have been caused by such a kick. As soon as I had issued it I a was aware of how painful it must have been, and after the fight one of my first thoughts was whether he would be OK, as I am quite sure it could lead to an energy blockage. However we were in a rush to get back to our home town that day and I was unable to talk to him. Allthough I still intend to find out about his wellfare and will teach Chi-Kung to clear the blockage if required.

Joko, to press in and attack was exactly what Ronan meant, and exaclty what I realised I should have done after the fight. This is using the Ta Chi Chuan Tactic

' The more your adversary retreats, the more he feels the distance to be desperatley short'

From The Treatise on Tai Chi Chuan, But as Si-Heng Antonius mentioned, it may not have looked quite as good.

[Antonius]

Stephen, I don't think you need to worry about Robin's opponent. It's true that a kick like that could cause an energy blockage, but so could a kick from a Thai boxer. Any trauma to the body will cause an energy blockage. Internal force is not necessarily more powerful than external force, particularly when it comes to kicks. If you compare two kicks, one internal and one external, the damage done may not be very different.

So what's the difference between internal and external when it comes to kicking? In my opinion, the most important difference is in how they are trained. A Thai boxer kicks trees, sandbags, and people for years to develop his force -- a process that is not good for the health (Thai boxers are notorious for dying young).

Robin, on the other hand, used purely internal methods. He doesn't kick bags, and as Ronan mentioned, he hardly practices kicks. Much of the power comes from zhan zhuang, and this power can be applied to kicks, strikes, or digesting food. Robin's kicks are powerful, but his health has not suffered to acquire that power. If anything, his health will have improved.

At higher levels, internal force will be more powerful because there is no cap. With external force, there is a ceiling. Once you reach that ceiling, your force will start to deteriorate, as will your health.

[MoMoJuice]

Nice pictures Siheng Robin. We are all happy for your achievement, I'm sure Sifu is very proud of you

Considering that you used internal force against your opponent for the most part, do you think that your opponent will suffer any internal injuries in the future?

During the Intensive Course in January, while practicing a combat set with Robin, his punch got thru but he pulled back, only barely touching my abdominal region. I felt a little "wave" go in, and for a few hours after that I didn't feel well and was nauseous. I didn't get better until the end of the practice session when we did some Chi flow, but still didn't feel "right" until the next day.

What would have happened had he not pulled back?

As for the guy, I'm not sure but my guess he'll be fine. Siheng Anthony's words are interesting though, so maybe a kick is not as internally damaging when compared to a palm strike or a punch.

Respectfully,
MoMo.

[Antonius]

As for the guy, I'm not sure but my guess he'll be fine. Siheng Anthony's words are interesting though, so maybe a kick is not as internally damaging when compared to a palm strike or a punch.

Try this experiment. Send chi to your index finger on your dominant hand. Then send it to your pinky. Then to your palm.

Now try the same thing with your dominant foot.

Which is easier?

[MoMoJuice]

Dear Siheng Anthony,

When I send Chi it is more noticeable at the palm and fingers than at the foot or toes.

Or when attacking with a palm strike there is a lot of Chi/force and feeling of "fullness" at the palm, but with the kick I almost don't feel the Chi or force at the leg/foot.

Do you think with time I will start feeling "fullness" and force at the foot when kicking?

If not, then I might start practicing Three-circle-stance upside down, standing on both arms while trying to make a circle with my legs. This way more chi can circulate at the legs and feet to improve kicking

Take care.

[DarkCosmoz]

Robin,

Thanks for your reply. It's always very refreshing to see the care and respect you (and the Wahnam community) have for your opponent.


Antonius,

Since the main force training method in internal martial arts is zhan zhuang, wouldn't the legs naturally be strong and filled with internal force? I still practice the Three Circle Stance everyday for 20 minutes a session. When I simply stand or walk, I usually feel more chi in my legs then in my upper body. When performing patterns, I don't usually direct chi to my palm or index finger. I just let it flow by itself according to the nature of the pattern. I may be wrong, but I think a kick would be more energy force filled since zhan zhuang emphasizes the legs. After all, one of the first things you feel when practicing zhan zhuang is the legs shaking.

Correct me if my theory's wrong!

Stephen

[Antonius]

Hey Momo,

Do you think with time I will start feeling "fullness" and force at the foot when kicking?

I don't know. Maybe. But it took me a long time to feel much energy (outside of chi flow) in my legs.

When performing patterns, I don't usually direct chi to my palm or index finger. I just let it flow by itself according to the nature of the pattern.

Well, if you understand the nature of the pattern, then you'll direct the chi to the right place. This is why it is essential to know (and not just intellectually) the combat application of each pattern.

Stephen,

I may be wrong, but I think a kick would be more energy force filled since zhan zhuang emphasizes the legs. After all, one of the first things you feel when practicing zhan zhuang is the legs shaking.

Who says zhan zhuang emphasizes the legs? This is the typical external view of zhan zhuang, and it's not true! Zhan zhuang emphasizes building energy at dantian, which then radiates out to the entire body. Certain postures also consolidate energy in certain areas, like the forearms.

[MoMoJuice]

Dear Stephen,

I hope you don't mind me pointing a few things, cause I know your questions are directed to Siheng Anthony.

Since the main force training method in internal martial arts is zhan zhuang, wouldn't the legs naturally be strong and filled with internal force?

I think Anthony's point here was not to say that the legs were not strong or lacking internal force, but to say that a Palm or finger strike is more internal. But he can correct me if I'm wrong.

I still practice the Three Circle Stance everyday for 20 minutes a session. When I simply stand or walk, I usually feel more chi in my legs then in my upper body.

Like you, I feel more Chi at the legs sometimes. But feeling Chi naturally around the body or directing Chi is not the same thing.

When performing patterns, I don't usually direct chi to my palm or index finger. I just let it flow by itself according to the nature of the pattern.

That's how we do it too. We just perform the form correctly, and the force is already there. No need to use the mind to send it.

I may be wrong, but I think a kick would be more energy force filled since zhan zhuang emphasizes the legs. After all, one of the first things you feel when practicing zhan zhuang is the legs shaking.

Externally this may be correct, internally it might not be so. Different stances can help a person achieve different aims. If I remember correctly, Sifu said that the Three Circle Stance circulates force around the arms and also the whole body. From my experience I noticed it allows you to build soft force at the arms/palms. I'm sure there are Zhan Zhuang stances that are better than others in developing internal force at the legs (Horse stance?).


P.S. Don't mean to go off topic here, please move this post to another section if needed.

Respectfully,

[MoMoJuice]

Ahh, typed this before seeing Siheng Anthony's post!

[DarkCosmoz]

Who says zhan zhuang emphasizes the legs? This is the typical external view of zhan zhuang, and it's not true! Zhan zhuang emphasizes building energy at dantian, which then radiates out to the entire body. Certain postures also consolidate energy in certain areas, like the forearms.

Touche. Thanks Antonius.

If I remember correctly, Sifu said that the Three Circle Stance circulates force around the arms and also the whole body. From my experience I noticed it allows you to build soft force at the arms/palms.

Thanks Momo Juice. Both you and Antonius are absolutely right. I tend to over intellectualize things and sometimes miss the basics.