Shen Men Tao

[Charles David]

Dear Sifu Stier,

Here's to a bright future for our respective schools.


With Shaolin Salute,

[Andrew]

Sifu Stier,

We disagree on some things and we agree on some things. That's what makes life interesting. I wish you well in your endeavours and would like to think we may see you posting here again.

All the best,
Andrew

[Maxime]

Dear Sifu Stier,

thank you for all the wonderful posts and PMs you shared with all of us. I wish you the best success for your own forum and will take a look there from time to time.

Now a new meeting spot for 'Don't mess with Texas Good Ol' Boys' dudes

Shaolin Salute,

Maxime

[Michael Durkin]

Well, Sifu Stier, its certainly been a hoot as you would say

As has already been said, there have been some things that have been disagreed about. But the bridges haven't been burned, feel free to cross back and forth in your own time. You are still welcome here.

I find that I need to seek calmer and more friendly discussion elsewhere. I have no desire to remain any longer where I feel that I am disliked, disrespected, and unwanted.

There are several friendly threads of yours here where many people would like to continue with you, myself included.

And what about making your 1000th post, your almost there

And who knows, in the future when were all in different places, we may be able to pick up the old battle axe discussions and swing them again for fun and old times sake. In a funny sort of way, I think your going to miss us here.

Take care,

[Jonny Say]

Dear Sifu Stier,

I echo my brothers words in wishing you all the best with the growth of your school, and will miss the lively debates which provided much insight!

All the best

[alexstedman]

Sifu Stier

Over the past few years, you have provided some very lively discussions, introduced us to another genuine fighting system, and generously given your knowledge on a huge variety of subjects. I will miss your posts here, but will also look forward to reading the Shen Men Tao discussion forum.

I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

Respectfully
Alex

[Marcus]

Originally quoted by Sifu Stier

I nearly lost sight of the original reasons for posting on this forum, namely to establish a greater public awareness of the Shen Men Tao System of Taoist Internal Martial Arts. This...I believe I have successfully done. I am grateful to the Shaolin Wahnam Institute for the opportunity to achieve this goal here.

For what it is worth Sifu Stier, I also believe that you fulfilled your objective. I wish you and your family the very best of success with your forum and website. I hope it will generate much revenue and joy for you. I'd also like to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to "raise my game". I have learnt a lot over the last few weeks

Kindest regards

Marcus

Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[Emiko H]

Dear Sifu Stier,

Congratulations on your new website forum!

I nearly lost sight of the original reasons for posting on this forum, namely to establish a greater public awareness of the Shen Men Tao System of Taoist Internal Martial Arts. This...I believe I have successfully done. I am grateful to the Shaolin Wahnam Institute for the opportunity to achieve this goal here.

It is good to hear that you feel you were able to achieve your goal on this forum. Certainly, your presence here has been both stimulating and illuminating. I have enjoyed interacting with you, Sifu Stier.

I'd like to wish you the best of success in whatever you do.

Best wishes,

[Sifu Stier]

This 'cameo appearance' on the forum here is in response to the many individuals who have contacted me to question my reasons for not posting here as regularly as before, or to encourage me to begin doing so again as before.

Virtually all of my detractors and adversaries among the 'elite' members of this forum have posted kind words of well wishing upon my departure. Yet in retrospect of the many unkind words of disrespectful insult and slanderous character assassination spoken to me by these same individuals, in some cases even since their well wishes to me, how much honest sincerity can I realistically assume to accompany such kind words now? It looks to me to be merely an effort to 'save face' after the fact at this juncture. And quite frankly...although a nice gesture after the battle so to speak...it is too little too late!

I didn't come on this forum to receive a well orchestrated share of group verbal assault. I didn't come here to find fault with what anyone else chooses to believe, to practice, or to teach. Nor did I come here to solicit more students by luring people away from whomever they already train with. I came explicitly to cast a bit of light on the past obscurity of a fine Taoist Internal Martial Arts System...namely Shen Men Tao.

Since I have been fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time in order to learn from several accomplished Masters of various disciplines during the course of my life thus far, I posted here on a variety of topics that I have extensive personal experience with. This was not done in arrogance...to 'show off'...or to imply that I am personally any smarter or any better than anyone else, but simply to share the knowledge of many years training experience with others who have an interest in the same areas of study.

How many other Masters regularly post anything on this forum, or other forums for that matter? Most don't even post on their own forums, much less anywhere else! And how many Masters have freely shared as much information here about as many different subjects via real time posts as I have? What was my compensation for the time and effort spent sharing? Was it additional income for me and my family...even a single penny's worth? No! Was it to establish myself as a knowledgeable teacher? No! Quite the contrary in fact. Thousands of people reading these threads are told daily by the host group that I don't know what I'm talking about. Quotes from my posts are still used here in various threads and in Q&A topics as examples of "shallow understanding" of internal martial arts principles, and as examples of "flawed thinking" about martial arts technique applications...all of which is essentially a reflection of my allegedly inexperienced, "low level" kung-fu skills.

Oh, I know...some will be quick to post defenses as to why they are justified in doing these things, and to find further fault with me for one reason or another. Mostly still keeping score of perceived and assumed wrongs done to them in the past, and still very much holding a grudge for same. It's very predictable to be sure!

And so...to whomever it may concern, these are the genuine reasons for my departure.

Sifu Stier

[Jeffrey Segal]

deleted but already read and responded to

Dear Sifu Stier,

I received the post you have deleted as an email. My next post was written in repsone to that post but also expresses my opinions on the way things have gone for you here.

Best,

[Jeffrey Segal]

Dear Sifu Stier,

When you arrived on our forum I was happy that a master should choose to join as and hoped to benefit from your wisdom. I know it may seem a long time ago but I remember very clearly the way you tried to show us that our thinking and way of practicing was incorrect in a number of ways. Of course that’s fair enough and makes for good discussion. On the other hand, we’re all dedicated practitioners too. We don’t just write based on what we’ve read in books or what we’ve been told by our Sifu. Our words are based on our experiences training and teaching.

So, when you disagree with us, we feel justified in wanting to know more about why and on what basis. Almost invariably, when someone has disagreed with you on this forum you have responded in a way that really made us question whether your words are based on experience. A master of the attainment you claim simply would not respond the way you do, unless he had some kind of ulterior motive to hide his real skills. This would seem strange, on the one hand claiming great skill and on the other, writing in a way that seems to deny those same skills. You feel that we have insulted you and disrespected you. I put it to you again, as I have in another post that your own words have, in many instances, been far more damaging to you than anything anybody else could write about you. I’m very busy now, but it would not take too long to compile a long list of quotations from your posts to back up this statement.

I initiated this thread out of a genuine interest in learning more about you and your Shen Men Tao School. I was hoping to see some photos or videos. After what seemed to me like a lot of stalling and fobbing off on your part (please read this thread from the start to see what I’m talking about), one of your students finally posted a couple of what look like old photos. That was all we got. I can’t remember on which thread but somebody mentioned that there was a DVD available which showed you performing. It was with great interest that I purchased the 2004 Taiji Legacy DVD in which you appear.

Sifu Stier, with absolutely no disrespect intended, if what I saw is an accurate representation of how you perform forms, you would greatly benefit from learning from my Sifu. He could help you transform your nice forms into something truly great. Many people have had this experience, people who, while perhaps being acclaimed as masters, knew deep down that something was missing.

Please don’t feel that I am insulting your master. That is not my intention. Perhaps when you were performing at the 2004 Taiji Legacy something was not as it usually is. If you are in possession of any videos of yourself performing, I would humble ask you to watch them and then download a video of Sifu Wong performing any set at all but particularly sets performed as spontaneous demonstrations. Can you see the difference?

Your performance on the DVD also made me truly curious to know how Shen Men Tao is used in a combat situation. It seemed to me that you would have to modify quite a lot to avoid hurting yourself (particularly in your hand and thumb positions). As a veteran of real fighting situations, I’m sure that you know better than me how dangerous it is to have your thumb at right angles to the rest of the palm. Please note that I’m not questioning your ability as a fighter but genuinely wondering whether you use the forms I saw on the DVD for combat.

Finally, I want you to know that I have enjoyed many of your contributions to our forum and that I sincerely believe that you have trained with great dedication for many years. You probably think I’m crazy recommending that you take lessons from Sifu Wong. You might even think it’s a hoot. No problem! I do hope that reading this post and perhaps taking the time to read your posts on our forum, especially in the threads where we have disagreed (paying careful attention to how you expressed your disagreement and realising that our posts are written from personal experience) will help you understand the evolution of your relationship with the Shaolin Wahnam Institute.

Best regards,

[Antonius]

I have "undeleted" Sifu Stier's post.

Like Sifu Jeffrey, I also received Sifu Stier's post via email, and I also read it. The message was also received (and presumably read) by the hundreds of people subscribed to this thread. Since Sifu Jeffrey wrote such an important and eloquent response, and since his response is best seen in the context of Sifu Stier's post, I thought it best to restore the original post.

[Sifu Stier]

Typical Fare!

This doesn't surprise me in the least. You say repeatedly that you don't monitor anyone's posts, but if you are receiving e-mail copies of deleted posts, then obviously that is not so. They aren't really deleted, are they? They are instead being forwarded to several of you so that you can use them for immediate or future verbal assault, and to hopefully embarrass and humiliate the writer, knowing of course that had the writer wanted everyone on the forum to read their post, they would not have deleted it! C'mon, it doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out, does it?

I intended to test my long held feeling about how thread posts and private messages are monitored on this forum, despite the numerous past assurances to several individuals that they weren't in any way, by writing a post that would surely generate a defensive response if actually posted, then delete this same post, and wait to see what happened. I even made a little wager that it would probably go just as it has here...that's how confident I was in your predictability...and you guys surely didn't disappoint me in the least.

FYI, I don't care who eventually reads the deleted post, because it expresses how I feel about the treatment I have received here...and as you so nicely now demonstrate again...continue to receive from the unscrupulous, dishonest individuals running this forum. There always seems to be more interest in perpetuating negative energy and hard feelings between you and whoever is not a part of your organization than there is in providing a fair and equitable format for discussion and comparison of alternate views. It's not even a hoot anymore...but just a very sad and totally pathetic exhibition of poor character.

Insofar as the video performance is concerned...very few of the performers give an all out 'best of show' performance because we receive no financial renumeration from the sale of those videos, and know that the material demonstrated will oftentimes end up in the hands of people who don't deserve the 'A' material....like some of you guys for example. But you believe what you want. I really don't care what you think. And I seriously doubt that you would be flattered by my analysis of the postures, stances, and footwork in some of your still photos and videos if it were publicly posted here.

Lastly, the open invitation to visit me for first hand, direct experience of my skill level is totally without time limit. I'm not going away anytime soon, so I'll be easy to find right here.

Regards ~

Sifu Stier

[Emiko H]

Everyone has this option

Dear Sifu Stier,

I switched on my computer 10 minutes ago and saw that there were new emails from the Forum indicating that someone had posted on a thread that I had subscribed to.

In my User CP, I had checked off the option to receive notification re: people's new posts to threads I had participated in. This is an option available to all participants on this forum, including you. Please refer to the top left corner of this web page and you will see, in white, "User CP".

Any how, once this option is checked off, the newest post on a given thread is actually sent to subscriber's email box. So, your post was sent automatically to my email box. Though you deleted it from this forum, it had already arrived in my box, as it had in so many of the thousands of other readers' boxes.

There has been nothing under-handed going on here. It is a genuine pity that you feel this way.

As ever,

[Antonius]

More Typical Fare

Dear Sifu Stier,

This reminds me of my very first interaction with you. Do you remember? I saved it, just in case you forgot. Since we're all being open, I see no reason not to share it here:

What's the deal? I make a couple of initial posts and then you allow me to
log-in again, but don't allow me to post again! If you don't want me to
post on your boards, please just say so. There are numerous other boards
that will welcome the insights of my lengthy training and experience!!!

SifuStier

To which I responded:

Dear Sifu Stier,

There must be some misunderstanding. No one has blocked your access, nor
would we try to unless you posted offensive and/or lude material. I assure
you that we are pleased to have someone of your experience on our forum.

Your account looks OK from my end. Please try to post again and let me know
if it works.

Best regards,

Anthony Korahais
Shaolin Wahnam Forum Administrator

That was your very fist message to me. I was genuinely shocked to receive a message like that from a grandmaster! Out of nowhere, I was suddenly being accused -- by a complete stranger -- of subversively blocking posting access. Of course, I did no such thing. The problem was with your Internet browser (and, arguably, your attitude).

Why am I posting this now? Because I think it is fitting after your latest comment:

They are instead being forwarded to several of you so that you can use them for immediate or future verbal assault, and to hopefully embarrass and humiliate the writer, knowing of course that had the writer wanted everyone on the forum to read their post, they would not have deleted it!

Once again, you use your own mistake as an excuse to lash out. Here is the simple truth, Sifu Stier: As soon as anyone clicks the "submit post" button, the post is automatically emailed to anyone who subscribes to the thread. By default, everyone who posts in the thread is also subscribed to it. That is how all Internet discussion forums operate, and ours is no different.

Sifu Stier, from your very first message to your very last (is it?), I'm afraid that it is you who is most predictable. I'm sure none of us really expected (although I genuinely hoped) that you would take kindly to Jeffrey's suggestion that you learn from Sifu Wong, but then, you don't take kindly to anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest, as Jeffrey so eloquently pointed out.

Best regards,