Strategy and Tactics for Combat

[Sifu Stier]

Re: Sufficient Training

Dear Sifu Durkin:

Your insights and observations are very impressive. You alone ask the glaringly obvious questions. In this case, what is a sufficient amount of training? This is somewhat difficult to state exactly, because there is no 'one size fits all' answer. What is 'sufficient' for one person may be too much or too little for others, so the training has to be 'custom designed' for each of us. And yet, there are a few general rules of thumb which are probably suitable for nearly all practitioners of virtually every style or school.

I shall use the word 'you' as a general term in reference to everyone who reads these posts. It is not directed at anyone in particular, OK? Great!

Do you...the reader of this post...have enough overall physical flexibility in your legs to suddenly and quickly squat to the floor without a step, or to quickly step backward with one leg...leaving the other leg fully stretched...and then instantly drop down to the floor without first warming up your muscles, and without hurting yourself? Can you perform a full speed kick with full power in a micro-second window of opportunity without injuring your knees or leg muscless? Do you possess enough relaxed flexibility in your arms and shoulders that you can instantly move at your fastest speed to defend and counterstrike without strain or sprain...without pulling a muscle...without tearing a tendon or ligament?

If your answer to any of these questions is a definite 'no', or a doubtful 'probably not', then you are not sufficiently flexible, and are not spending 'sufficient' training time stretching out. Determining how much more time is 'sufficient' will be totally dependent upon your current degree of flexibility, and how fast you wish to improve upon present abilities. I was repeatedly told for many, many years as a student..."You must more forms...more chi-kung...more stretching. More...more! And so...if you try more hard...you will do more better."

Maximum defensive reaction capabilities require the development and maintainance of maximum flexibility, maximum strength, maximum balance and body control, maximum stamina and endurance, and so forth. Only in this way, is it both possible and probable that you will be able to perform any and all of your techniques, tactics, and strategies in the 'blink of an eye' when necessary.

This same measure of 'sufficient training' can be applied to every physical attribute and skill needed to be an expert fighter. And the beauty of each practitioner's personal 'sufficient training' time is that in devoting enough training time to achieving optimum physical preparedness, we will most likely also be practicing enough form sets and other drills to program the preferred tactics and strategies which they present into our deeper mind for subsequent automatic, unthinking reactions and responses....as if there was no pre-planned strategy, no pre-planned tactics, and no conscious selection of technique.

Then...you can just let your chi flow and let your hands go, and your reactions and skills will be magical!

Regards ~

Sifu Stier

[Andrew]

Thanks for the clarification Sifu Stier. So what you are saying (in a very round about way) is that what I had assumed you meant above was correct when I said:

...once you have trained and practiced the relevant strategies and tactics enough, they become a kind of second nature and the intellectualisation most consider to be needed for the successful implementation of strategy and tactics is set aside.

You needed 6 paragraphs and a couple of posts in between -- I needed a sentence.

You wrote

the best strategy for combat is no strategy at all

and then, just a couple of posts later

....we will most likely also be practicing enough form sets and other drills to program the preferred tactics and strategies which they present into our deeper mind for subsequent automatic, unthinking reactions and responses....as if there was no pre-planned strategy, no pre-planned tactics, and no conscious selection of technique.

I'm sure it would be much easier for all of us if you would write what you meant in the first place rather than constantly contradict yourself. Clarity (or lack thereof) is the word that comes to mind.

Andrew

[Michael Durkin]

Continuing with chess...

The Bishop chess piece is a powerful piece, but then again, so is any piece in the hands of a skilled strategist and tactition.

As I said, it takes minutes to learn how to move a chess piece like the bishop. Now I have learnt this, I have harnessed all the abilities of the bishop.

physical training to insure ample strength, speed, stamina, endurance, balance, body control, relaxed flexibility, and so forth, to prepare the body for maximum efficiency of spontaneous response.

as you stated, is now complete with my knowledge of the bishop.

I can move the bishop 1,2,5 or X number of squares at a time, with all the physical traits I quoted of yours above. But without tactics and strategies I may move right into a trap despite my flawless abilities.

I may even move myself into a tight situation where no amount of exceptionally perfect diagonal moving will get me out of because my exits have all been blocked off due to tactics and strategies, perhaps even by pawns who have "lesser" abilities than bishops.


Training tactics and strategies

If you take a look at Shaolin Wahnam's Training Program, you will see that tactics and strategies are specifically mentioned early on in our training at level 4. But prior to this, earlier still in level 2 for example, students learn the principles of attack and defence. This covers "asking the way" and "safety first". Both these important aspects touch upon tactics and strategies of observing your opponent for openings and weaknesses.

Or even creating weaknesses in yourself to trick your opponent into attacking that presented weakness. For example, having both your hands quite high around the head region would invite an attack to the mid section or legs. But of course if this is your strategic plan, you can employ tactics when your opponent falls for your trap.


Sifu Stier, you will also be pleased to note that our level 1 : "Fundamentals of Shaolin Kungfu", emphasis is placed on :

• Leg stretching - importantly performed as chi kung
• Zhang Zhuang - force/stance training
• Stances and footwork - moving in stances
• Dimensions, aims and brief history - where tactics and strategies are mentioned

These of course are prerequisites for training in martial arts, that is why we practice them from day 1 and continue practicing these "basics" even at masters level years and years later.

Going back to the bishop chess peice again. Thank fully I can always rely on the bishop being able to move the way it does for how ever long I play. This will be down to the dedicated training the bishop would have done for weeks, months, years and decades. And also because of being training so well systematically and methodically.

An exponent that can continue to perform at his/her best limitlessly will be down to exceptional internal force from stance training to name one.

(all this talk of chess makes me want to start playing again )

[Sifu Stier]

Dear Sifu Andy:

Whew! You're a tough customer...a difficult man to please...to say the least. When I strive to present my views in simple ways, you think I am insulting the intelligence of the general readership of this forum, and when I present my views from a Master's perspective, you don't understand me and think I'm not being clear enough. So then I backtrack to 'spoon feed' you an explanation, and you find fault with that...too roundabout you say. Sheeesh!

And so, as much as I am tempted to field all of your questions, I'm left feeling that the effort required to do so is probably more than I care to make. And besides, you'd only find fault with my answers anyway, right?

I sincerely hope you find the clarification you need on many of these topics, and suggest that you look to your own Sifu for the answers.

Regards ~

Doc

[Andrew]

Congratulations Sifu Stier -- on showing a new level. I'll leave the readers to discover for themselves whether this new level you depict is higher or lower than you have shown to date.

When I strive to present my views in simple ways, you think I am insulting the intelligence of the general readership of this forum, and when I present my views from a Master's perspective, you don't understand me and think I'm not being clear enough.

This is a joke right ? Isn't the a sign of a true Master teacher that he can transmit complex concepts in a way which makes them easily understood? Presenting information "from a Master's perspective" shouldn't involve making things more complicated than they are. And over-simplifying concepts to the point that the basic concept is lost is also not exactly ideal for a Master teacher.

One of the great things about my Sifu is that he is indeed a Master teacher -- he makes extremely complicated concepts simple to understand. And there is no need to present them in one way to a beginner and another way to a Master. This, as far as I'm concerned, is true Mastery of teaching.

Andrew

[Sifu Stier]

WahnamCH:

Thank you for proving my point once again. You are very predictable. I realize that you and others here don't like me, and will find fault with whatever I post. That is certainly your perogative, but really unfortunate for us all. A more friendly exchange of ideas would undoubtedly be of greater benefit to everyone. But as long as insecure inter-school competitiveness and personal vendetta 'score keeping' dominates your perspective, nothing very productive comes out of all of this.

Again, this is unfortunate, because whether you like me or not, I bring many years of authentic kung-fu experience in the Internal Martial Arts to these discussions. If you and others here were to put as much energy into looking for something of value in my posts as you put into divisive argument, criticism and antagonism, you just might spot a salient point or two every now and then.

At this juncture, however, your attitudes as 'hosts' of this forum is such that I believe most of you would be alot happier by openly stating that this is the Shaolin Wahnam Discussion Forum, and is meant solely for the discussion of Shaolin Wahnam concepts, teachings, training methods, and techniques for and by Shaolin Wahnam members and practitioners only, or those wanting to know more about your organization who may be interested in joining. Then you wouldn't have non-members threatening the status quo by posting dissenting views.

Respectfully ~

Sifu Stier

[Michael Durkin]

Ok, here's an opportunity for anyone to express their tactics and strategies by squatting down as Sifu Stier inquires :

Do you...the reader of this post...have enough overall physical flexibility in your legs to suddenly and quickly squat to the floor without a step

A Shaolin Wahnam technique that would require a quick squat type movement would be "catch a tiger in the mountains", from our "Tiger Crane Set" and also the marvellous "Cross Roads at Four Gates".



(Sifu demonstrating this pattern years ago)


While this is an effective defence against kicking techniques, it also presents the opportunity to execute tactics and strategies.

A strategy here may be to temp the opponent in to lunging down and striking. A monkey specialist would then exploit many of the cheeky but clever tactics of surprising them with a swift kick to the stomach.

Or one may directly counter a kick by striking, I won't say where the strike would be, as this is a secret that is hidden in this "Song of secrets" which is translated below :

Shaolin Four Gates trains bridges and stances
Secrets are found in Flowers in the Sleeves
Block the Boss and Carry Insignia with punches
Phoenix Flaps Wings to rustle leaves
To Hit the gong in unexpected slanting motion
To Seek the Organ show the shadow hand
The marvel of Catching Tigers in the Mountains
Only from the master can students understand

Have fun by trying to figure out how and where "catch a tiger in the mountain" may strike from the song?


So Sifu Stier has given an opening, lets discuss tactics and strategies. Students of Shaolin Wahnam, don't worry if you haven't practiced this technique, there is much to find here that you can apply in your early training. And of course, everyone, including Sifu Stier, we welcome to contribute with your own experience whether this is inside or outside of Shaolin Wahnam.

Looking forward

[Antonius]

Dear Sifu Stier,

I realize that you and others here don't like me, and will find fault with whatever I post.

It's not that we don't like you. It's just that we happen to disagree with you quite often. Unfortunately, it's not easy to disagree with you because you have a long habit of taking it personally -- as you are doing now.

It's also difficult to agree with you because you constantly contradict yourself. You say one thing in one post, then say something completely different a few posts later. Then you often accuse us of misunderstanding and/or twisting your words. Misunderstanding is a common theme surrounding your posts. Have you not noticed?

If you and others here were to put as much energy into looking for something of value in my posts as you put into divisive argument, criticism and antagonism, you just might spot a salient point or two every now and then.

You have made many, many salient points on our forum, and we have repeatedly expressed our appreciation. I myself am particularly grateful for your contributions to the Chinese medical section of our forum. Others have expressed their gratitude both publicly and privately. However, I've noticed that whenever the general level of disagreement outweighs the current level of praise, you start to take things personally. So allow me to throw some praise in your direction in an effort to balance things out a bit.

Dear everyone,

Now, all of this may seem very off-topic, but there is a method to my madness. Bear with me. If we go back to the topic (i.e. strategy and tactics), I think we can agree that there are many ways to apply them. We can apply them in combat. But we can also apply them in writing.

Learning to apply tactics in writing is useful. This is something that I've been practicing for years -- right here. I use this discussion forum as a means to practice and test my skills in applying strategies and tactics. Some of you may have noticed.

After a few years of this, I found that I was able to naturally and spontaneously apply tactics in writing whenever necessary. Interestingly, people hardly ever notice what I'm doing. But I've found this skill to be extremely useful both in my personal and my professional corresponances. More importantly -- and quite unexpectedly -- I've found that this skill transfers easily from writing to combat! I don't know exactly how, but it works.

Now that I've given away my secrets, can anyone spot the tactics that I'm using in this post?

Best to all,

[Charles David]

Asking the Way?

Are you asking me? I would say you are trying to assess my knowledge and my abilities.

I would also say the authority with which you present your ideas could be a tactic of intimidating would-be opponents before the fight begins.

I'm not sure exactly where but I also suspect youve left an opening for Sifu Stier to attack you. (lets see how he responds)

Exploiting opportunities for success: Sifu Stier indeed has contradicted himself on occassion and you have picked up on that.







With Shaolin Salute,

[Andrew]

Sifu Stier,

I cannot say that I dislike you. We have not met so it would be most difficult to form such an opinion -- in fact I have never even seen you (apart from the old photos presented here a couple of months back). You have made some excellent contributions here. Everyone will have seen and acknowledged this. But not all of your contributions have been positive ones.

Without writing a long post here, suffice to say I echo my Sihing Anthony's words above.

If you and others here were to put as much energy into looking for something of value in my posts as you put into divisive argument, criticism and antagonism, you just might spot a salient point or two every now and then.

You see, Sifu Stier, this is where the problem arises and the word "clarity" comes out again. When you post, we often have to put a lot of energy into finding something of value and identifying the salient points in what you have written. When a Shaolin Wahnam instructor writes, the value and salient points are mostly clear and obvious for all to see.

Please also don't confuse disagreeing with your position or asking for clarification on your standpoint as being divisive argument, criticism and antagonism. For that is not what is intended.

Again, when you make positive contributions, we are all grateful for them. If you could write more clearly more often and with less contradiction, then I'm sure many more would benefit better and easier from your vast knowledge and experience.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Kevin]

Hello to all. I hope everyone is doing well.
Just wanted to add a few thoughts that I have regarding the current discussion.

Firstly, I've been reading and visiting this Forum since it started, and I have to disagree with Sifu Stier about members of the Shaolin Wahnam Family showing insecurity, personal vendettas, or dominating perspectives. Just the opposite. The openess, confidence, compassion, and willingness to listen to ideas and ways of thinking that differ from their own is quite clear. In fact, I think the Wahnam Family has shown just what tolerance is all about on this Forum.

As far as the differing of opinions, ways of thinking, etc. between the Wahnam Family and Sifu Stier, is just seems to me that Sifu Stier is starting from a different place/foundation than those at Shaolin Wahnam. One example-in posts #2 and #5 of this thread, Sifu Korahais states that combat is rarely the only choice, and that running is usually an option. He also states that "one has to wonder what kind of energy a person projects in order to get into so many fights". I myself remember reading a martial arts book many years ago (I believe it was an Aikido book) in which the author stated that while the Art was very effective for self defense, if a person found themselves getting into a lot of fights, whether or not they "started it", that they probably needed to re-examine the lives they were leading and the energy they were projecting to others. Now that's one perspective (and the one I agree with and hold to). Unless you're surrounded in a corner, RUN. Run your butt off. Staying and fighting when you don't have to proves nothing, except maybe lack of common sense on your part. I mean to stay and fight when you're not sure if you'd win or lose is one thing, that doesn't make sense. But to stay and fight knowing you're superior to your attacker and will easily beat him..what does that show? Why would you put yourself in a position where you know you're gonna hurt another human being? Again, this is assuming that running is an option (and it usually is). I understand that there are the rare occasions where you must defend yourself.

From what I can gather, the Shaolin Wahnam Family would hold to the "fight only if there's no other option" perspective. Sifu Stier, on the other hand, seems to come from a different perspective. I know in some of his threads on this Forum that he's talked about the Many times he's had to fight. And from the way he spoke of it, it seemed to me that he's been in alot of fights. And he's shown how he's more than happy to physically confront someone who thinks they "have something to teach him". Two things jump out at me. One, Sifu Korahais' statement on what kind of energy must a person project to get into so many fights. And two, once the fight was there in front of him, why did Sifu Stier fight so much. I just can't believe that in all the fights he was in, that he couldn't simply have turned around and run away. But again, different perspectives. Maybe in Sifu Stier's martial art heritage, that would somehow offend his past masters, admit lack of skill, etc. I leave it to him to explain that. I'm not judging anything that anyone has done in the past, because I wasn't there. Just thought that might be a topic in and of itself.

Another difference of perspective between Shaolin Wahnam and Sifu Stier appears to me to be in terms of the actual physical part of Kung Fu. Sifu Stier mentioned (and has done so in the past) about having sufficient physical training to insure ample strength, speed, stamina, flexibility, etc. And that meditation can be used to calm the mind and emotions. The majority of what Sifu Stier mentions just sounds like results from physical training, whether it be lifting weights, push-ups, jogging, stretching, performing kung fu sets, etc. On the other hand, Shaolin Wahnam is more than clear that their power, force, strength, stamina, flexibility, etc. comes from chi and Chi Kung-not from physical exercises.

I know that Sifu Stier is an internal kung fu stylist, but he rarely mentions chi and chi kung. I'm not saying he never does, or hasn't, but just not in the same way as Wahnam students do. As has been said many times on this Forum and website, there are many Kung Fu stylists, internal and external, who talk about chi, say its important, talk to their students about it-but actually have little to no direct experience with it. Again, just trying to point out differences in perspective. Again, maybe this needs to be in a different thread, but I just thought I'd bring it up.

Let me say that this post by me is not an attack on Sifu Stier. It's not saying that his way of thinking or doing things is wrong. I'm just saying that he's probably coming from a totally different place than Shaolin Wahnam. And instead of taking things so personally, maybe Sifu Stier could just attempt more to listen, understand, and explain things that are asked of him.

Sifu Stier's posts on this Forum continue to teach me lessons..lessons he's probably not even aware he's giving.

Best wishes to all

Kevin

P.S.-for some reason, the following quote from Batman Returns was in my mind while writing this.
"It's not who you are underneath-it's what you do (and how you act) that defines you."

[joko]

P.S.-for some reason, the following quote from Batman Returns was in my mind while writing this.
"It's not who you are underneath-it's what you do (and how you act) that defines you."

Which reminds me of:
'It is not the fact that matters most, it is how you perceive the fact (and your reaction) that matters."

[George]

Kevin,

While I may agree with some of what you are saying, a lot of it seems heavily based on personal opinion, rather than direct experience (which is considered extremely important in Shaolin Wahnam.)

Sifu Stier has been a valuable contributor on this forum and has certainly proven that he has deep knowledge of a lot of topics. While we seem to disagree with him on a number of principles, we respect his knowledge and contribution to our learning.

While you are certainly more restrained in your opinions compared to a few previous posts, there is still a bit of personal attack involved, which is not nice.

At the very least, they are off-topic on the current thread (although your examples of strategy are certainly not.)

Please don't take offence though, I merely speak from experience of someone who can still find their own unfortunate past statements on this very forum.

[Kevin]

Hi there George. I appreciate your reply to my post on this thread.
I know I don't have nearly as much direct experience in the martial arts, strategies, tactics, etc. as most people on this Forum do. I readily admit that pretty much everyone in the Shaolin Wahnam Family, and Sifu Stier, have much, much greater direct experience in these matters. So when it comes to my comments about the recent posts on this thread, Sifu Stier, etc., I have to go on the only direct experience I have regarding this topic-the posts by Sifu Stier and others.

I agree that Sifu Stier's presence has been very valuable on this Forum, for a number of reasons. I also respect his contribution to my learning and the learning of others on the Forum.

I did not mean my last post to seem like a personal attack in any way, shape, or form. A couple of my previous posts have had that "bite" in them, and I'm determined not ever let that happen again or come across like that.

I realize some (or most ) of what I said in my last post were off topic. I apologize for that. I just got to typing and it spilled out. I'll try better to stay on track in the future.

I don't take offense to anything you said George. Just the opposite-I appreciate your words and insights greatly. Thank you.

Kevin

[Darryl]

Kevin has raised an extremely important point, as has Joko; if you disagree with someone, also consider why you disagree and where you are coming from.

Kevin, my compliments on maintaining a level head and, more importantly, an open heart .