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The Concept of Yielding in the Internal Martial Arts
Some Internal Style Martial Artists mistakenly believe that 'yielding' means always giving way to others in every situation. In my opinion, however, this is not true...not even in regards to fighting situations. Yielding to an opponent's physical momentum, speed, strength, and power through evasive maneuvers only works as a defensive response up to a certain point...but not beyond such point. Sooner or later...the opponent's force and power must be returned to him for his own demise in order to prevent further attacks.
Likewise...all attempts to mentally, emotionally, and verbally neutralize an opponent's intentions to initiate a physical assault will usually be effective only up to a certain point...but not beyond such point. Once it becomes undoubtedly clear that the antagonist cannot be dissuaded...all attempts to neutralize their intentions must be abandoned. At this point...'yielding' is no longer a matter of trying to avoid the fight, but now entails acceding to their wishes by giving them what they insist on having...i.e. a good fight.
Their intentions to experience the release of strength and power through violent means can now be rewarded by helping them feel these things coming back to them as an immediate return on a bad investment of their thought, energy, power, and self-initiative. This results in a sort of 'instant karma' scenario for the attacker.
If they choose to charge forward...let them do so, and pull them face first into the wall or some other unmoving, solid object. If they choose to pull you...let them do so, and push them backward to stumble over some obstacle on the ground or into something solid. In every case...no matter what kind of attack is initiated...the defender is just trying to help the attacker move in whatever direction their actions indicate that they wish to go!
They make all the decisions to force a fight, they take all the initiative in attacking first, they decide in which direction the action will move, they choose how and where they will attack, they assume apparently total control of the entire situation...and yet only they are injured and defeated....swiftly, powerfully, and decisively by using all of their decisions and actions against them!
This can be a hard lesson for experienced aggressors to learn...since it will most often be very difficult for them to understand what caused the final outcome to be so unexpected different in comparison to their previously successful aggressive and assaultive behaviors.
This is a good thing for the defender, too, because the assailant will be no better prepared to succeed in any subsequent encounter with the defender should they choose to seek revenge or 'even the score' later on!
Such individuals merely prove again and again by their personal examples that we can't all be smart!
The reason I started this thread in the first place!
Dear Sifu Stier,
First of all, thank you for being such a regular contributor to our forum and for all the advice you’ve given to so many people on so many subjects. I’ve often been impressed with the sheer scope of your expertise. I think it’s fair to say that not many people on this planet can meaningfully offer advice that is born of experience on such a diverse range of subjects such as tree acupuncture, the Greek Orthodox Church, Yoga and Tibetan Buddhism etc etc.
With your 800 plus posts you are our 4th highest contributor and yet, with the exception of a couple of your students, none of us have ever even met you. I’m sure you realise that many of our forum members know each other personally, have trained together and continue to train together regularly or occasionally (we are after all an international family).
I haven’t asked you about it for quite a while but I’m still very interested in seeing some kind of photos or videos of you and/or your students. As it seems unlikely that 99% of our forum members will ever meet you, I’m sure it would be much appreciated if we could get a visual idea of what you and Shen Men Tao are all about. Of course we don’t expect you to regale us with a comprehensive set of videos like our own beloved Sifu but some photos or videos of Shen Men Tao practitioners training or even just a group photo would be nice.
Once again, thanks for all the time you spend posting on the Shaolin Wahnam forum.
Sifu Stier's post on the concept of yielding in internal martial arts reminded me of an article that Sifu Anthony wrote a while back, for those of you interested in a comprehensive exploration of this theme you'll find Anthony's article here: http://shaolin.org/shaolin/tactical-retreat.html. A visual representation of neutralising a "pressing" attack and then pressing back can be found by watching this video clip http://shaolin.org/video-clips-2/seq4.html. I picked this clip from the many clips available because it demonstrates "yielding" at a speed that you'll be able to see and learn from.
Kind regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha
Thanks for reminding us of Sifu Korahais great post!
I had read it some time ago, but did not understand; I understand perfectly now, after returning from the Intensive Course last month. What a difference that Course has made me.
Oh, yes, I am aware that understanding technique is one thing, having the skill to apply it is another thing.
That means practice,practice, practice, and enjoy!
Gratefully,
Joko
开心 好运气 kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
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Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
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Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)
It would have been very much appreciated...and genuinely quite refreshing for a change...to see you guys ADD SOMETHING SPECIFIC from YOUR OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE and UNDERSTANDING of the subject to my post on 'Yielding'!!!
Instead...you appear to merely post here in order to pat one another on the back, and to kiss one another's arses...while sucking up to others! Now don't misunderstand me....I love organizational politics as much as the next guy, but that wasn't the topic at hand, was it?
Perhaps there could be a much needed and long overdue 'Brown Nosing Thread' somewhere on the Forum here to fill the gap and meet the need! LOL! What a hoot!
Last edited by Sifu Stier; 10 February 2006, 01:02 PM.
Hey Sifu Stier, how about starting a thread on ‘misunderstanding people’s good intentions’ or maybe another one on ‘how many religions you have to join before you stop being patronising’.
I appreciate that because the people here mostly share a love of the Shaolin arts, there is sometimes a rather reverential tone, maybe even at times a self-congratulatory tone. And I can see how that could become a little annoying. Then again, I rather appreciate the politeness and respect. I think you probably do most of the time.
I also very much enjoy and value your contributions… but I did think this post of yours deserved a response, perhaps in the same spirit in which yours was written!
Sifu Stier, could you practice that skill of yielding you were talking about with Sifu Santer and Joko?
I'm surprised again with your tone and language. Perhaps its just me, I don't speak to people that way, but I appreciate we are different people.
Why not take the opportunity to talk about the videos, rather than using abusive language towards Sifu Marcus and Joko?
Possibly Sifu Santer posted that video to encourage you to post some videos of your good self, since that is one of the things Sifu Segal originally asked you for in this thread, I don't know?
We like to congratulate people on this forum. A couple of pages ago, you received several posts where people wished you well on your birthday. I know this is not the same "brown nosing" that your talking about, using your words, but hey, forgive us if we like to congratulate people. And oh yes, happy belated birthday, sorry I forgot, I did wish you happy birthday last year, remember?
Either way, nice to see that some pictures of yourself have eventually been posted.
Greetings to everyone on the Forum. It's been a while since I posted last, and I actually hadn't been to the Shaolin-Wahnam website in a couple of months. But I'm happy to see everyone is still here and that Shaolin-Wahnam is flourishing. I hope everyone is well.
I've been a visitor to this Forum since it first began, and I've read and followed Sifu Stiers posts and replies as well. I'm not gonna waste time or beat around the bush with what I want/need to say. And having no affiliation with Shaolin-Wahnam or any instructors, etc. makes me feel as if I'm in a good position to say this without Sifu Stier jumping on me and saying I'm sucking up, patting on the back, or taking part in "organizational politics"..I'm not a part of this "organization", although I would consider myself honored and proud if I was.
Sifu Stier, the majority of your posts/replies, I have always felt, had a certain underlying tone of superiority, criticism..and to put it bluntly, they just seemed the way a smart-a$$ teenager who thinks he knows better than everyone else would reply in conversations with anyone. What I have to say here is not meant as an attack, not meant to be "mean". But as I'm not part of the Shaolin-Wahnam family, I don't feel the obligation to walk on egg shells around you because you supposedly have a certain number of years experience in the Martial Arts, and have studied with umpteen different masters. Nothing I say in this post is meant to disrespect you, Sifu Stier, or your masters and students. But I also don't feel like I owe you some sort of lip service because you've practiced this or studied that.
This last reply you posted just made me unable to keep quiet any longer. You moan and complain often about the "brown nosing", "back patting", etc. on this Forum from memebers of the Wahnam family. If it bothers you so much, why don't you just quit reading it and stop posting. From all I've read from the many people on this Forum, both inside and outside of the Wahnam family, you're the main cause of conflict, misunderstanding, etc.
Whenever you originate a post, you lay it out as the "gospel truth" and whatever discussion ensues from it, you refuse to see past your own ideas, conditioning, way of thinking. And from what I've seen, you usually just end up saying something to the effect of.."Well, you guys can think/believe what you want, but I'm right, and you're somewhat off and crazy for not thinking the way I do". I'd say you have the largest number of posts that have phrases to the effect of "sorry for the misunderstanding".."no disrespect..BUT", etc. If it's such a chore for you to put up with other people's ways of thinking and how the Shaolin-Wahnam family does things, then why not just go away? I mean you're the supposed Grandmaster of your style/system. Why not start and use your own website, where your final word is law..which seems your preference.
I've been reading Sifu Wong's books since back in the late 1990s. I've followed this website, and Forum, pretty much since they began. And I don't think it's an understatement to say that Sifu Wong is what the ideal Kung Fu, Chi Kung Master should be. And flowing from that, it seems to me that all the instructors/assistant instructors in the Wahnam family are, to put it simply, genuinely good people. Although I haven't had the pleasure to meet Sifu Wong or anyone in the Wahnam family, from all the time I've spent on this website, it just shines through what good, kind, caring, understanding, compassionate people these are. People with an integrity and outlook on life that is both rare and inspiring.
I've never read one word on any post by anyone in the Wahnam family that came across as bossy, sarcastic, out of place, condesceding, mean, etc.
And I have to give Sifu Anthony Korahais a ton of credit for how he's dealt with you all this time, Sifu Stier. Sifu Anthony (although not a master) has shown more qualities of a master and a gentleman on this website than you could ever hope to compare to Sifu Stier.
Maybe you've learned alot of Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Yoga, Chi Kung, Meditation, etc. during your life Sifu Stier..but what good has it done if you just come across as a rude know-it-all?? It doesn't take a Sifu, Guru, or Swami to teach someone manners. I think in your search for all of this esoteric knowledge, you missed the important lessons of manners and how to be a nice person. And that's just sad. If you have to be yourself and be a know-it-all, then why not go do it on your own time and let this Forum be the positive place that it is. Your students HAVE to listen to you..so pontificate to them. Shaolin Wahanm has true gentlemen and ladies, instructors, assistant instructors, and students..and a true Master..all with a genuine, compassionate desire to listen to, and help, others.
With respect to Sifu Wong and all members of the Shaolin-Wahnam family.
Please don't be shy now. Why don't you tell me what you REALLY think about me? Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings, OK? LOL!!! What a hoot! I sure hope you negotiated for a substantial voucher, and that the check is already in the mail, after a stellar post like that! And I'm SO relieved to see that you aren't at all jealous of me like a certain small number of anonymous "wannabe's" are on virtually every martial arts forum where anyone with any real knowledge and skill is willing to share the fruits of their long labors with whomever is interested.
FYI....the point of my previous post is that there are a number of different Sections to this Forum which are specifically earmarked by name and topic for discussion of the philosophy and practices of Shaolin Wahnam. This is most appropriate and fitting since this IS the Shaolin Wahnam Forum. Topics of discussion sometimes spill over into areas other than where they probably should be, but that is just the nature of any good, dynamic and lively discussion...and has certainly been true of many such discussions on this excellent Forum.
There is, however, one thread only on this Forum devoted by name primarily to the discussion of principles, practices, and training methods of the Shen Men Tao System. As such, I have no problem with anyone responding with observations of their belifs or practices compared with what I have posted. Absolutely none whatsoever! But to come on and post some 'Good Ole Boy Club' BS which redirects participants away from this thread without any comment or critique of what has already been posted on the subject here seems petty and rude to me...no matter who it comes from...because it essentially attempts to usurp the entire topic to another place rather than contributing to the topic where it already is.
And by the way, Kevin...anyone who uses the title 'Sifu' IS in fact claiming to be a 'Master'...and yet very few seem to offer anything of real value or substance to any discussion. Sifu Korahais is among the rare notable exceptions...as witnessed by his numerous informative and insightful posts on a great variety of topics. Like me, the Shaolin Wahnam Instructors and Sifus generally post their real names, as well as their actual physical locations, and also just like me, probably wouldn't be that hard to track down for anyone who really wanted to connect with them live and in person. I respect anyone like that who is willing to either 'put up or shut up'!
And so, Kevin, since you seem to feel fully entitled to pass judgement on me from the secure privacy of your anonymous computer keyboard, I'll extend my usual offer to guys like you. My name, address, telephone number, and e-mail address are openly listed on numerous Teacher Directories. I am NOT difficult to find, and unlike you, I don't intend to be. So if and when the spirit so moves you to do so...please seek me out and show me what you have to teach me. I'd love to see it! I guarantee that you'll leave with a different perspective on who and what I am.
Last edited by Sifu Stier; 10 February 2006, 08:07 PM.
The more you post, the more I see (and you show) how correct I am of my assessment of you Sifu Stier. I have no comment for most of your last reply..mainly the last paragraph. I will say that if the majority, if not all, of your masters (assuming they were true masters) saw how you act on this Forum, they would be severely disappointed in you.
Your arrogance is baffling and digusting, all at the same time. You pretty much state that the majority of Sifus in Shaolin Wahnam don't deserve the title. Again, showing your skill at passing judgement and being the sole possessor of the "truth". The more I hear from you, the more I feel bad for your students.
Anyway, your last paragraph. Those don't sound like the words of a true Kung Fu master. You throw me in the category of "guys like you". You don't know me at all. Passing judgement without any knowledge. And again, you sound like a bully teenager.."I'll be in the parking lot after school..you know where it's at..so come get some." Geez. How old are you? The fact that you would openly seek to physically confront someone who you don't even know (which it what your post infers) shows an immaturity that is shocking of a supposed "master". You give the bad teacher in The Karate Kid a run for his money.
I never claimed to have anything to personally teach you. I honestly think you're beyond listening to anyone but yourself.
But you are right. If we did meet in person, I'm sure I would leave with a different perspective on who/what you are. I'd find out first hand what a jerk you are in real life.
Again, no disrespect to this Forum, Sifu Wong, or members of the Wahnam family.
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